Gladius - darn it I'm just not impressed

[TorchMan]

Really? !00,000 in use? Friends thats 20 million dollars worth of product!!! In Ken's dreams maybe.

I take it you mean 10,000? How can you dispute that factually? True, he's not offering documents or the like, but what has he done that his word cannot be taken? I, for one, believe him. And I don't just believe anything I read, but, really, why would you be so doubting?

And, please tell me how 10,000 x $250 is 20 million? 2.5 million is what I get. Do I have a bad calculator, or just not know how to use it?

 

[Kiessling]

Longbow, please try to tone down your style a little bit ... attack the post and not the poster / another member (Ken in this case).
bernhard

 

[kukula]

I second that. Besides I believe that when Ken said 10000 it doesnt necessarily mean in the hand of end users like us. It could mean 10000 lights shipped out of the factory. Now it could be in the hands of endusers and dealers worldwide. If you think of it that way, 10000 isnt really much is it

 

[beezaur]

I am thinking it was just a typo or a mis-remembered figure. No big deal, and Ken did not make the claim.

Obviously somebody won't be buying a Gladius. . .



Scott

 

[TorchMan]

I'm not trying to get into their finances. And if they sell for $250 retail, then not all goes to them anyway. And they can be had for less, we all know that. The 10,000 figure came from a return rate statement, per 10,000, etc. It could be more. That does not seem outrageous to me.

Maybe I should have just ignored the comments, but they were begging for a challenge. Nope, Ken and them don't need me to play advocate, I know. I'll try and chill. I just don't undestand the axe grinding, especially to this level.

 

[Longbow]

No TORCHMAN, your reading is just a little rusty. Re-read Dougmccoys post #50 in this thread.

Zeh


Yeah, good point about going off topic, gee, don't you just love it when that happens!............LOL!

Anyway FWIW I'd buy one. Just make sure it has HA111. The Light has more good ponts than bad and its functionality has to be experienced in order for you to understand it. IMHO the plastic tailcap issue is not worth worrying about. Sure if it is dropped directly onto its tail in lockout mode then it may break or malfunction but out of 100,000 out there only one or two are known to have experienced that problem and the warranty from BHI has taken care of it.

The forced mating of the tailcap to body has damaged a few Gladius, but when the correct technique is learnt the issue is relatively minor and shouldn't occur. The ceramic coating has been superceded now by HA111 and shouldn't be any more of any issue than any other HA111 coated light.

Night-Ops are working on a redesign for the current tailcap and are also to bring out (eventually) a flangeless version. It is also rumoured that there will eventually be a clip released as an accessory but for obvious reason Night-Ops/BHI are keeping quiet about details and release dates.

At the end of the day only you can justify spending your money on a Gladius but if you get one and decide it's not for you I don't think you'll have any problem off loading it to someone else.

Doug'

 

[TorchMan]

Yeah, I am rusty, but so are you. That's DougMcCoy being quoted, not Ken. Show me where Ken said that!

Okay, LongBow. You like flashlights, so do I, just not the same ones. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Kiessling]

Guys ... please stop it or this thread will have to be closed.
bernhard

 

[zespectre]

Everyone, if we can't get back on the topic I'm going to ask a moderator to close this thread before it turns ugly.

So for the last time...
the origional point I was trying to cover which was this...

If you own or have used a Gladius, how significant are the points of concern I listed in the very first post.

If you do NOT own or have never used a Gladius would you please refrain from comments as you will not help anything.

Thanks

 

[Longbow]

No attack on anyone, least of all an all around good guy like Ken. I'm sure if 100,000 Gladious Flashlights were sold as dougmccoy posted he'd be the first to admit "it must be a dream".

 

[SJACKAL]

I do not own one of these lights however I do like the concept and purpose built design behind the light. I think the more simple approach works best with a light however I have seen other high dollar lights with minor flaws at first.
If there is some special way to activate a light or a certain way to change batteries then practice is the key. Any officer will tell you that you better know your equipment before going out in the field.
I remember changing from a level 2 holster to a level 3 and it took a very long time to develope a habit of hitting that extra thumb break simply as I had practiced for years with one specific set up. The same goes for lighting here I think. When I switched from a Stinger to a SureFire I had practiced for years with the switch on the body behind the bezel. It took some time to learn the tailcap switch and now that is all I would use.
I can tell you first hand that even a seasoned veteran will have some type of stress related factors in a combat situation. Most fine motor skills are lost and that is where repetition comes to play. I think a tactical light should be as simple as possible and if you have one that is different learn it well before using it in the field.
Practice a battery change under stress and also practice going to a back up light if your main one fails. Do it until you are almost crazy with boredom and then do it some more. You want your instincts to take over and these should include training for every scenario. I like a light designed for one thing in mind such as combat or patrol work. This light should do well however it does seem to be different. I really can not say as to the quality or ease of use of this light as I do not have one as of yet.
Regardless if there are any problems Mr.Good seems to be on top of things and does seem to really want to make a good product. I will keep my eye on this light and maybe try one for myself.

I agree with what you said! A good post!

 

[joema]

...rather go onto the modern battlefield in Cessna 172 or an F/A 22 Strike Fighter?....Does anybody actually believe at this point in history that the United States of America is the dominant Super-Power because we followed the KISS Principle...

Actual US military production strategy has changed over the decades. Just before WWII, key planners decided on a KISS-type mass production approach, which contrasted with Germany's technically superior but lower volume production. The KISS approach worked then.

Since then US military procurement strategy has shifted to a highly technical, essentially German-like approach.

This point has been deeply debated among strategists for decades. For many years a school of thought developed that US fighter planes had become too complex, too big, too heavy -- they instead should be simple and light. A key proponent of this was Col. John Boyd who pushed the KISS-oriented, small light F-16. By contrast the F-15 for years was touted as the wrong kind of plane.

Fast forward a couple of decades and the F-15 has an air combat kill ratio of over 100 to ZERO and the F-16 has (despite being more numerous) has a lot less, plus much higher non-combat losses.

So your point is valid -- while engineers say "complexity breeds failure", the actual equipment OPERATORS (whether flashlights or fighter planes) NEED appropriate complexity to best achieve the task at hand.

This is highly relevant to newer technical flashlights, since the presumed failure rate and operator difficulty of those newer lights is often discussed on this forum. Yet it's the same old debate.

 

[mtbkndad]

If there is anyone else out there who has actually held and used a Gladius I'd like to hear from you as well because I'm a little underwhelmed.

I went to my local camping place (they carry a lot of unusual lights) and they had just gotten the Gladius in. Funny enough I had my Inova T4 with me 'cause I was looking for a sheath so I was able to compare the two lights side by side.

Now don't get me wrong as the Gladius has some very cool features.

I really liked the ability to completely operate the light one handed, especially the one-handed dimming.
I really liked the sheer range of light you get from low to high.
I liked the different modes, the strobe really is dazzling.
The ceramic coating looks and feels neat.
The overall shape and balance of the light is very nice.
Good beam control (as seen down a dark alley behind the store) though really not much different from the T4, the Gladius just has a nicer sidespill.

However in the end it just failed to impress me. For the price tag attached to that light I felt that...

-The lock-out was ANNOYING! It's far too easy to trigger the light ON just before it locks and then you have a locked ON light.
-The detents for switching "modes" were not nearly as positive as I'd like them to be.
-The modes need some sort of witness marks so you know by feel exactly what mode you are in before you trigger the light. I'd hate to need the disorienting strobe and turn on another mode.
-The whole mode switching ring felt loose and also felt like you could break it if you slammed it from one end to the other in a panic situation. This may not be true but that is sure how it felt.
-The demo light already had a nick on the fins, how long will that ceramic coating really hold up?
-And the absolute worst of all, the delicate "line up the nub with the slot" procedure for changing batteries. Okay, it's an LED based light so you may not need to change batts often, but Good LORD! For a tactical light in that price range I should be able to flawlessly change batteries, in the dark, by feel alone, in a few seconds -even in a high stress situation. :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

zespectre,

I own a Gladius and will answer each one of your points with my personal experience per your request.

LOCKOUT-
Initially I had problems locking the light out in off mode without locking it in on mode. This just took a little practice and a better understanding of the mechanism. You only push it down far enough to enable the dial to turn to lockout. Now I can easily do this with one hand. This works best for me when I am pushing the plunge mechanism down and turning the dial simultaneously. Once again this is a very easy one handed operation The ability to lock it on also has some advantages too.

DETENTS-
When handling the Gladius with two hands the detents do not seem that positive. However, in practice I never use two hands to operate the Gladius and I would not want the detents to feel any more positive for single handed operation. The beauty of the detents for me is two fold.

A. The dial moves smoothly and can easily be operated with one hand
without thinking about it.
B. We are only talking about two clicks from one side to the other.

WITNESS MARKS-
I personally do not see any advantage to witness marks. When I am using my Gladius I do not want do be dependent on lining up marks. I have used my Gladius in some potentially serious circumstances and did not have any trouble getting to the mode I needed when I needed it.

LOOSE MODE SWITCHING RING-
How about loose feeling plunge mechanism/ mode switching ring cover.
I think this is relative. It is designed to be easy to move and operate with one hand. Many people believe the eroneous belief that tight switches are good switches and loose switches are bad switches. That is not necessarily the case. The design and components of the switch make it good or bad whether it is tight or loose. The plunger/rotary dial cap mechanism is actually designed to be a switch/ break away safety cover for lack of a better term. (This does not apply to lockout mode until that issue is fully resolved in production).
When not in lockout mode the plastic plunger/rotary dial cap are designed to break BEFORE enough force can be applied to the actual plunger shaft/switch to make it break. I emailed Night-Ops about this after studying the design and asked about it. They said I was correct that was the design.
Also, when not in lockout, it takes a lot of force to break the plastic plunger/rotary dial cap. I mentioned, in another thread, I think the switch design is a stroke of genius and would much rather have a broken plastic exterior and functioning mechanism then an intact exterior and a severed or inoperably bent plunger mechanism.

COATING-
I have type 3 anodized lights and a Gladius.
This in part is no longer an issue because from what I understand the new Black Gladius flashlights will have type 3 annodizing.
ALL of my lights that get regular use have nicks and wear regardless of the coating. The Gladius coating on my flashlight is holding up quite well in all of the large surface areas.
The Gladius is starting to wear a little on the outside corner of the bezel where it rubs the holster. The stars have silver spots, but I do not care. If I did I would use some of my aluminum blackening solution to touch up the color.
What almost nobody mentions it the feel and grip of the ceramic coating.
The Gladius is the most comfortably grippy flashlight I have ever owned whether it is wet or dry.
Personally wish Night-Ops would have gone with thicker or better applied ceramic coating in the newer versions instead of type 3 annodizing, but that is just me and I am just one customer who already owns his Gladius.

LINE UP NUB-
That is already being addressed and I even emailed Night-Ops when the first issue came up and said the mechanism would be much stronger with a key like is used in electric motor/pulley setups or a raised rectangular boss. I am sure that will be permantenly fixed. Ken already posted in another thread that the fix is being worked on.

CONCLUSION
I noticed the points you brought up when I bought my Gladius and decided to keep an open mind. All of these issues have either become non-issues or strengths to me the longer I have owned and used this light.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:

 

[IMTRBO]

I will also put in some of my thoughts about this light, having used it for a few months. I can't speak from the perspective of a tactical user, but as flashlights go, I think this one has been incredibly well designed and engineered.

I won't discuss the good points already mentioned, because I agree with them.

I find all the modes extremely simple to use, they really are. Select one of three settings and press for light, it's great! All the modes are easy to access with one hand, including the lockout, and I only locked it on 'ON' the first time I tried to use the lockout. In fact, the Gladius is the only light that I always lockout before putting back into my pocket, just because it's so easy and I can do it one handed. All of my other lights require two hands to lockout and to re-enable, and require more time to do so.

The tailcap also feels pretty sturdy to me, especially because I have a bad habit of playing with the rotating ring all the time, twisting it back and fourth.

With regards to the battery changing, again it's not really much different from putting the tailcaps on other lights. The only difference is that you have to rotate the tailcap in the opposite direction for a little bit first. Some other lights require you to do this anyway, to get the threads to line up.

My ceramic coating does come off a little easily, but that's fixed now with the HAIII. Although I really like the ceramic look and feel.

As a little side comment, I do have one interesting experience to note. One time when I was using my Gladius, I thought I had it in temporary mode when it was actually in the constant on mode. As a result, I went from full brightness to almost no light in a few seconds. Since I'm not a tactical user, it wasn't a problem for me, but if I was, it might have been a costly accident. Now of course, I don't think this would happen to a tactical user, as they wouldn't have my bad habit of constantly playing with the tailcap and forgetting what setting they were at. A tactical user would select their mode and leave it at that, I think.

 

[Irongen]

I think that at some point in the near future, I'll be investing in a Gladius (god bless my wife, I told her how much they cost and she gave me that little "you're sick hon" look but said okay. She's definitely a keeper. :rock. I was curious, if a design change is made to the tailcap to eliminate the problems with the tab, etc, will there be an exchange or upgrade policy for Gladius owners that have the original model? Hopefully Ken can comment on this, and if it's already been covered, my apologies.

 

[xpitxbullx]

As some of you know, I had the tailcap bust on me when dropped in lockout mode. Ken resolve this for me within a few days. Now, when I feel it may be dropped, I just leave it in momentary mode. Problem solved.

The more I use this light as an EDC, the more I love it. It's easy to notice which mode the light is in by giving it a full clockwise twist then clicking back to the desired mode. No problem whatsoever knowing what mode is about to be activated with a couple of practice runs.

I would love to see a 5W version but I understand that the 3W does produce a tighter beam with higher corona lux which is more desireable for putting the light into someones eyes. There is enough sidespill to see whats going on outside the corona. I just used my Gladius while out hunting out in the mountains (no, I wasn't spotlighting animals) and I love the sharpness of the beam. It throws like crazy out there. At the campsite, I used my 2 stage L4 equally as much as the Gladius but on the dirt roads, the Gladius was the only option for me (though I did play with my Mag2HID sometimes).

Would a clip be better for me? I think it's possible to make a 3rd party clip for it. I understand that a LEO would just use a holster for it and the clip would only get in the way so, I understand.

After practicing battery changes, the tailcap is no problem. I know I wont ever bust it screwing it off or on.

Because of my need for a multi-level light, it works great. Granted, I would like to see it with about 10 levels of light instead of 100 for easier level selection but thats just personal preference.

No light out there is 'the perfect light' but with all the lights I own, the Gladius still ranks high as my personal choice of carry.

Jeff

 

[dg]

....... god bless my wife, I told her how much they cost .....

Tut, tut, you have a lot to learn. lol

 

[matrixshaman]

I don't own a Gladius yet but I'm sure I will soon. I'm going to be just a little off topic here but since it's been brought up I'll add something to it that I don't believe has been brought up. This is regarding the KISS principle. In my observations there are (overly simplified) two kinds of people. There are those that lean towards KISS and those who lean toward wanting all the bells and whistles. Being in the KISS doesn't mean you are old or stupid - it's just a personal preference. I consider myself older but I'm one who has always liked all the bells and whistles and would easily call myself a technogeek. A tactical technogeek is going to be fully intimate with his Gladius and will likely have no problem getting it to do what he wants under stress as he has been eating, sleeping, dreaming, fondling and being one with his new light So you see it's a choice and maybe it's like the Ford/Chevy Mars/Venus and other disparate things. Neither one is wrong or bad - just different choices. Hopefully this is not :laughing:

 

[Irongen]

Tut, tut, you have a lot to learn. lol

Why? She will let me purchase a $250 flashlight. Past that, a $50 Inova T3 or Magcharger will be child's play to get, she won't even give it a second thought by comparison.

Besides, I like to have a happy home life, I know that if I snuck it in, she'd find out the real price anyway, and then I'd have some serious problems. :laughing: