Has Your "Taste" In Lights Changed With Time

richbuff

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Re: Has Your "Taste" In Lights Changed With Time, even after 72 hours?

No, not even after the passage of 72 hours and after reading lots and lots of posts in several international flashlight forums. Still the same. I still like cool white. I still want to be able to choose a low and medium mode for fuel supply conservation, and be able to choose a high mode that is capable of dumping all of the fuel supply in a brief blaze of glory.
 
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Like many others I too wanted more and more lumens, in the beginning. Now I'm past that. Quality, runtime and tint is more important now. And lets not forget about the UI. The light can be great but the UI can ruin it for me.

+1! I didn't delve into this in my previous post in the interest of brevity but this is a great point. When I was starting out in the world of Chinese lights I was impressed by lights with a zillion modes...until I started using them in the woods!:ohgeez: Now I'd rather have multiple lights than multiple modes. To me single mode is best for most uses, and two is the most I will tolerate. If a light has two modes they must be accessed via "uncoupled binary controls" to use Elzetta's terminology. The switch must do one thing and no more: It must activate the light. Mode switching must be done via some other means such as tailcap or bezel rotation. Theoretically a sliding switch or external ring would work but in the real world this would just introduce another point of failure and added risk of water ingress.

Early on I liked the way my Surefire E1b was set up. It comes on in HIGH, with a debounce to LOW on the second press. Eventually I wearied of that system though when it would occasionally enter a cycle I didn't intend.

Tint is important to me and reliability is paramount. But even a great looking light that's totally bombproof won't get much use if the UI sucks.
 

degarb

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Beamwise, my eyes have not evolved. Still, the most efficient beam is overlapping my 15 degree cones for Hotspot with spill going up to 110 degrees. Measure using trig. .. However things change, my first lights were 29 lumen at 1 watt for a life of 6.5 hours. TODAY 560MA to 700MA adjustable constant current, off 2x18650,for 373 of lumens, over 8 to 10 hours. 8h full on. Tint wise, I still hate yellow, feel I see worse, color hunting on walls. After last chart tests, 6500 Kelvin works fine for Eye. You just need higher cri for camera, I don't think Eye cares that much solely about cri, as luminance and gamma area index are equally important, if not far more. My preference is still 4k to 5700k Kelvin, just taste, based on emotion, preferences of others and neurotic paranoia. Though 4k is as warm as I like. I am scarred for life by drab yellow incandescent winters in the 80s, and horrid purple and cold LEDs of the 2000s. You cannot swap cri for efficiency and think, per watt, you see better-- not until lux breaks into teens. Then,even then, you might be better to put filter on your eyes rather than the led, if color shade hunting is in store for your workday. Then, you can vary lighting instantly by taking off your glasses. Dope the led, make it dimmer, you don't have the option. I did, once, like the zoom lens in the 100 lumen days, since you need 4k candela at 2 meter inspection to reach the optimal 1k lux. Zoom offers better throw per watt than reflector, but at cost of otf lumens. At 300 plus lumen, full workday, zooming lens not needed anymore, and wider Hotspot, more output, spill, is appreciated.I no longer am worried about preserving my night vision, opting instead for as many lumens as the cells I can manage to wear can out out over 10 hours. Also, as many lumens as the 15 amp outlet can provide my work light. There is no comparison of a 40k worklight and a 100k lumen worklight. Directionality of fixed lighting is more import outside than inside, which surprised me. I didn't realized how well walls can ping pong lumens about before absorption.
 
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Cheeze2222

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Yes my tastes in lights have absolutely changed over time. when i was first into lights i only wanted the brightness, strongest lights possible. now i realize that there are lights that a'rent as powerful ans some that are actually more usful in your normal day to day routine because they a'rent absolutely blinding.
 

degarb

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Why 2 modes. I bet if you took tail cap milliamperage readings, did the math, your tune would quickly change. Once consciousness arises in you, you will become much more discerning about exact allowance of milliamps per day or night needs. One or two modes don't cut it.


All warms are, is a filter over a cold led. The filter is sometimes needed for human eye, may not see balance of color, due to blue scatter. So, in sunlight, noon cct is very high, driving glasses are, if not too dark, (maybe pinkish violet tint) will help a painter see color better outside. However, yellowish warm may hurt color perception when painting inside. I was trying to use warm just last night to floss and Polish out a root stain along my lower tooth line, had to bring in cold led to see. My next round of led house lights are going to be cooler, I hate warm, no matter how much they sap the energy out of me, allowing me to fall asleep quicker. 4k is warmest I can barely tolerate. 5800, probably coolest. Though I won't admit publicly, I may like some of my 6500k lights.... CRI, GAI, and luminance equals color perception. Cct is huge for preference. For example, my 4200 K 65 cri probe start my 400watt hid, is preferred by me, over my 500 watt 70 cri 6500. However, on my eye "subtle color shade difference perception" testing, the higher focused, ugly tint led was slightly better. But man, I hate the color of that led light.



I do a ton of professional painting, and 120 shades of color tests, color matches. So, color shade difference and runtime is everything. I want to like the warms, but 12 years of constant buying leds, testing, I cannot. The depth of field argument, where the eye needs some blue, higher luminance to see better, far far far better matches my long road of experience. But make no mistake there have been horrible cool Xmls that I immediately threw away. Then give me an 80k lumen, even 407, 65 cri, over my Tota at 100 cri & 24k lumen, any day for painting. For photography, I would always use the 100cri warm, esp. for Lilly white people, at least.

I guess in principle, a person has the right to prefer the color of high pressure sodium, as well as p.o. purple. The real question to ask one's self is why. So warm, is ingrained habit for older people, it is fatiguing in morning while soothing in evening. Warm makes pale people look better by rendering blue veins and eye bags poorly, emphasizing red blood vessels. Warm may show autumn leaves better. Higher cri photographs better. Warm was argued to offer resolution in eye, but I haven't seen this effect, likely because my cool light have reds, per my spectrometer. While cooler, not too cold, offers better eye depth perception, has narrow frequency needed to replace caffeine intake. Most people prefer neutral. Though my kids prefer the cooler neutral, closer to sunlight cct. I prefer whatever give most eye perception per available amp I can reasonably allot. Whatever eliminates the most ghosts or skips.

People have favorite colors. So, at times, may wish to see only certain colors. I wonder when tunable flashlights and headlamps with high Lpw, will be a reality.... Also, I don't want one or two smartphone controlled tunable bulbs in my house-ever!!! I don't want the security backdoor, headaches. Unless, I am the one doing the spying of realtime usage habits. I don't like the price. I don't appreciate stupidity, demonstrated through a complex solution to a simple knob control. Give me a $2 to $4 knob or touch control, any day, so I can buy 30 of them.
 
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KBobAries

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Mine have definitely changed. Like some, I chased lumens but now it's more about beam profile, tint, and UI. I've moved from cooler to neutral/warmer.
 

degarb

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I don't think forums would still exist, if not for one finger composition on cell phones. The auto correct, turning valid words into bondsman is killing me. And the screens are so tiny.


https://youtu.be/kncd-74NhLU
 
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Ozythemandias

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I'm all about customs these days. Started off not wanting to spend over $20 so I guess my tastes has changed [emoji389]
 

Canuke

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Interesting to think about. I've been here since 2002 off and on, lurking since before that even. I remember when nearly everybody was dissing the "sickly yellow" of incandescent lighting, and playing the tint lottery in search of that pure white light. Then along came neutral and then warm tints, and all of a sudden there was a wave of interest in LED's that most closely approximated the look of... incandescents :)

I've never really fixed on any particular area; I've just leaned one way, then another, with the winds of novelty.

I've generally settled on the 2AA or single 18650 format for EDC, in bang-for-buck lights like Convoy, and (simple) custom builds using popular hosts and reprogrammable drivers so I can control the UI. 80+ CRI is more than enough for me, and I like the full range of tints. For "fun lights" I still like absolute output; recent purchases include a Convoy L6 stock, and two vinh mods: a Meteor m43vn and a Fenix LD75Cvn.

I do appreciate the Surefires, I've still got an original Lux V L4 from 2003, but since I don't have a job where reliability is that crucial, I don't otherwise need them.

If there's an area I'm less interested in, it's the itty-bitty lights below single AA.
 

degarb

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Interesting to think about. I've been here since 2002 off and on, lurking since before that even. I remember when nearly everybody was dissing the "sickly yellow" of incandescent lighting, and playing the tint lottery in search of that pure white light. Then along came neutral and then warm tints, and all of a sudden there was a wave of interest in LED's that most closely approximated the look of... incandescents :)

I've never really fixed on any particular area; I've just leaned one way, then another, with the winds of novelty.

I've generally settled on the 2AA or single 18650 format for EDC, in bang-for-buck lights like Convoy, and (simple) custom builds using popular hosts and reprogrammable drivers so I can control the UI. 80+ CRI is more than enough for me, and I like the full range of tints. For "fun lights" I still like absolute output; recent purchases include a Convoy L6 stock, and two vinh mods: a Meteor m43vn and a Fenix LD75Cvn.

I do appreciate the Surefires, I've still got an original Lux V L4 from 2003, but since I don't have a job where reliability is that crucial, I don't otherwise need them.

If there's an area I'm less interested in, it's the itty-bitty lights below single AA.

Very interesting. Your lurking knowledge shows in your choices.

I must add, lights are generally hated by me, until crossing thresholds of efficiency and runtime while bright. Getting an edc I like, I can't say has happened. I suspect my latest purchase may have finally solved all my hurdles. But wife has seen this tv show before.
 
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Why 2 modes. I bet if you took tail cap milliamperage readings, did the math, your tune would quickly change. Once consciousness arises in you, you will become much more discerning about exact allowance of milliamps per day or night needs. One or two modes don't cut it.

I'm not a professional painter nor do I use an LED light to pick spinach out of my teeth.:laughing: If you have ever hunted or been hunted, or awoke to an alarm in the dead of night with a sidearm in one hand and a flashlight in the other you would quickly find that multiple modes for lights doesn't cut it. Toys can be elaborate with lots of "features", serious tools can not. At least IMOHO.
 

mbw_151

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When LEDs first became viable in everyday flashlight use(say more than 10 lumens), I jumped at anything that extended runtime and reliability.No more fried MiniMag bulbs and dead cells after an hour. Life was better and simple. Then the whole flashlight world exploded with choices. Multiple outputs, color temps, and modes. It took a long time, but my tastes evolved to desiretwo key features. I like a color temp consistent the ambient when I'm using a lightand I like a KISS user interface. My favorite lights now are 3000K for when it'sreally dark and 4000K for uses in a brighter ambient environment. I like single and two output lights. I do have some Malkoff M361Ns because they have the right color temp and are dead reliable. I have some HDS lights which have acomplex UI, but the access to High from any output is a priority feature for me out weighs the complexity. I wish Surefire had continued with the L1/L2interface. I thought it was perfect. I also like the UI of the older SurefireMinimus headlamps, just dial up the desired output. The newest Minimus MV ismore efficient and has a better beam pattern, but without a stop at zero, I can'talways tell where I am. These days, I also want a beam pattern consistent withthe output, I like flood for low outputs (<50 lumens) and a little morethrow for throw for outputs 50 to 500 lumens. What good is the low output of anAAA "thrower" when you are trying to read the menu in a dark restaurant? I also haveno practical use for lights with more than 500 lumens. They are great toys, butare too large to carry or run for too short a time. You may think I'm stuck ina rut, but what I have works well for me.
 

degarb

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I'm not a professional painter nor do I use an LED light to pick spinach out of my teeth.:laughing: If you have ever hunted or been hunted, or awoke to an alarm in the dead of night with a sidearm in one hand and a flashlight in the other you would quickly find that multiple modes for lights doesn't cut it. Toys can be elaborate with lots of "features", serious tools can not. At least IMOHO.

Interesting.

Different designs, different needs.

Maybe intrest you in vinh's
X65vn100? I think only one mode, but don't quote me.

Maybe i have missed the complex lights. Most drivers i see, have 3 poorly chosen levels, memory, and hidden sos and strobe. Now, if life is fleeting, modes be damned. Nothing else matters.

I always defer to the armed guy, with a badge, and tiny light on the end of a club. Always.

Now the X65vn100, may have many unforeseen uses like shining into suspects' eye to see if the pupil constricts, or unduly squint revealing sleep deprivation. .... I think i will end it here..
 
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timbo114

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2009, 1st ever purchase of an LED torch - Fenix P3D Olive Q5 - instant addiction.
I then ran the gamut of CW AA throwers.
Then David Chow made a NW Quark ... CW AA thrower addiction ended immediately!

90% of my many CW lights were sold, to concentrate on NW offerings.

Sold most of my 123 based lights - kept the original run Quarks and run 17670s & 17650s & 16650s in them.
Also have a handful of Quark Minis in NW.

I own (too) many Malkoff NW drop in units that are housed in SF 6P & 9P hosts, all sporting Z59s w/McCliky HPs.
I own a few NB NW drop ins, and a few VB custom drop ins.

My hands down fav units are my many copper AAA lights w/Nichia 219 (these lights get more use than all others except for my backyard deer spotter JetBeam BC40 NW)

So I've graduated from lots and lots of varied torches, to floody NW tint snob status - and I like it here.

* I could probably put a big dent in the price of a new Indian Chieftain with all that I have invested in my LED torches.:shakehead
 

jon_slider

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Yes, my Taste has changed

Im a newbie that has focused on AAA Eneloop power
After buying a couple Titanium Twisties, I stopped buying Twisty Ti lights because of the gritty threads.
After I tried my first N219b light, I stopped buying Cool White and Low CRI
When I discovered my first N219b light had PWM, I sold it and stopped buying lights w PWM
When I discovered that my Cu Tool w Nichia was unregulated and inefficient on High, I sold it and stopped buying them.

I now buy Maratac AAA Copper w Nichia.
I love that my Maratac w Nichia has: No Cool White, No Low CRI, NoPWM, No inefficient unregulated High mode.
 

cp2315

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I believe this is called "evolution". :)

Yes, my Taste has changed

Im a newbie that has focused on AAA Eneloop power
After buying a couple Titanium Twisties, I stopped buying Twisty Ti lights because of the gritty threads.
After I tried my first N219b light, I stopped buying Cool White and Low CRI
When I discovered my first N219b light had PWM, I sold it and stopped buying lights w PWM
When I discovered that my Cu Tool w Nichia was unregulated and inefficient on High, I sold it and stopped buying them.

I now buy Maratac AAA Copper w Nichia.
I love that my Maratac w Nichia has: No Cool White, No Low CRI, NoPWM, No inefficient unregulated High mode.
 

Arizona_Mike

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I gained an appreciation of s coolish Neutral White (around 5.0-5.2k or so). The 6.5k+ will get you the advertising lumens and allow you to signal the mothership with the eerie green glow.

Mike
 

Zak

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As with most people, I stopped chasing numbers and started to care about tint and color reproduction. 5000K is my general preference, but I can be happy between 4000 and 5500 and prefer warmer in throwers for the reduced backscatter. I only have one light in my EDC rotation that isn't over 80 CRI, and most of them are over 90.

I've also come to care less about momentary and a proud tailswitch, preferring an electronic switch with shortcuts to low, high and medium or last-used. I no longer think strobe has any meaningful benefit over a bright steady mode for self defense and would generally prefer that a light not have blinky modes as whatever action is used to trigger them could be better assigned to something more useful.

What may be more interesting is the opinions I haven't changed since I discovered modern flashlights:

  • 18650 master race. If it's big enough to hold an 18650, but uses something else, it had better have a really good excuse.
  • Proprietary batteries are unacceptable.
  • Being unable to use, or having deficient performance with rechargeable batteries is unacceptable.
  • Everything should have a sub-lumen mode, or at most 1/1000 of its maximum output.
 

anthon87

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Yes, from zoomies to reflector, from cool white to neutral white, from throw to flood
 
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