I used my flashlight for self defense last week.

James S

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[ QUOTE ]
it was originally designed to repel bears.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was reading the page on tactical warehouse's page on OC spray. They have a canister that the name says is for bears, but if you read the description they talk about how good the spray is at getting around glasses or hats. i ask you, when was the last time you saw a bear wearing glasses? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

Lurker

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Interesting story. Thanks for sharing. Stingray's advice on adding motion-sensitive security lighting to the driveway is excellent. BC0311 is right on with advice to stay inside your vehicle. It sounds like you approached on foot, but could have approached in a vehicle. Your headlights are brighter than most flashlights and you have protection and interesting force or escape options available to you in a vehicle that have nothing to do with your physical height or strength. A PA system in the car would allow you to issue commands to the intruders without leaving your vehicle.

The situation with your wife panicing on one side and you on the other was an unfortunate factor. She may have even been blocking their avenue of retreat somewhat which could have made matters worse. I had a similar situation one time in my home and in retrospect I should have ordered my wife to vacate to a safe location, which would have left me more free to escalate if necessary without having to worry about risks to her.
 

Joe Talmadge

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What were your thoughts as he went rummaging into the trunk? Sounds like there'd be some serious pucker-factor there, he could've come out with about anything.
 

Bill.H

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IMO, if practical, you need some bright lights down at the end of the driveway. A couple of 600W Halogens would strongly discourage the lovers from parking there. They could be controlled by a switch in the house or by a remote control (many newer garage door openers have this capability built in), preferably both. Second choice would be to call the police. As was mentioned above, your wife should just drive away and wait in safety.

Glad it all worked out.

(I'd like to tell you to just go down there with some serious firepower, but I'm neither the judge nor the Emperor, so don't do that as you'll probably be treated as the aggressor, not the victim. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )
 

chrisn1niq

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Thanks for the support and suggestions. I'll add a few more things here.

I'll admit we were somewhat ill prepared. We were expecting snot nosed kiddies with raging hormones and got Mr. GQ with an attitude. I don't know why my wife didn't back out and take off but I'm confident that she will next time. BTW: she was in her car the whole time. I think the stress of the situation affected her ability to act.

I tried to think of a way to evacuate both of us at the same time but couldn't come up with a plan to get to my wife without this guy being one step behind me.

I do have a CCW permit and for one split second after getting my wife's call I considered packing. Shame on me for not doing it. OTOH I was not presented with deadly force. I am also sure that I would have been arrested had I shown a gun without being threatened with deadly force. At the most, I would have had it out and pointing at the ground when he went for the trunk. With luck he wouldn't have seen it. And yes, there was a serious pucker factor going on with a lot of momma bear protective instinct as well.

Finally, I will now be paying the electric company $11.00 a month to have a 16,000 lumen floodlight mounted on the utility pole at the end of my driveway. I haven't grasped exactly what a lumen is yet but hopefully that will illuminate the area sufficiently ( the pole is about 100 feet from the end of the drive). I would do something myself but my own powerlines come in from another street and I can't beat the price.

With all that aside, the lesson I am trying to preach here is plan, plan, plan. I don't consider myself a wimp but this was just a lose/lose situation that would have gladly backed out of if I could have. If I would have discussed this scenario before (and I should have because of the history of trespassing) it could have been avoided and these jokers might have been nabbed red handed. I know this sounds like a "it happened to me lecture" and the truth is that it is indeed.
 

BlindTiger

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Glad you and your wife are ok.
I'm curious about the au pair, I hear they do go wild when they come to the states. guess that's why the GQ a-hole.
My in laws are Swedish so I'm not making this up.
anyway hopefully the cops will keep an eye on her or back to Sweden she goes.
Maybe one of those wireless cameras would be a good idea. You can also sniff the signal from your car.
 

Badbeams3

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Glad you handled it so well and you and your wife are safe. Yea, I agree with you and the other posters about installing lights at the end of the road. And maybe some low voltage lights outlining the long driveway as well so that folks understand that this is a private driveway...not just some lonely dark road. And the dog idea makes a lot of sense too.

Ken
 

raggie33

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i use my flash light every other day as a deterent as stated before i live in kinda a bad neeberhood.well i live ver close to projects and we get people from there walking by house all night like 4 am.sometimes even behind house so when ever my dog alerts me to someone i go out and light up all dark areas. i figure after a while they will get point
 

jbroker83

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Just picked up a coyp of Guns and Ammo Combat Tactics, on the different CQB combat techniques, and in the table of contents...here are some following interesting articles:

White Light Reality, written by Massad Ayoob (very respected authority on combat tactics)

Power of Light, written by Steve Tarani (Staff member of the prestigious Gunsite academy, Senior Defensive Tactics instructor for the Del Ray PD in California, and author of several combat books)

How to choose a tactical Light, written by Derek McDonald.

The Power of Light is very interesting, basically teaching tecniques in which a tactical flashlight can become an offensive weapon. This author has used these techniques to save his life, so as a previous poster mentioned...his "antics" did work.
 

Lurker

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Hopefully if this ever happens again, the cops will respond. No matter how prepared you are, it is a job best left to the authorities. They have the body armour, various lethal and non-lethal weapons, the training to use them effectively, a radio to call in backup or medical help and the legal authority to use the above without winding up in court afterward. All in all, that is a much better option for you.

I'm really glad all worked out OK for you.
 

jbroker83

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Yeah, let's not forget that in the "heat of the moment" things move and progress very quickly, and sometimes it's all we can do just to keep our head in the game...let alone think about what's the best possible/worst possible things I can be doing right about now....so i think the poster did some good things...
 

Saaby

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The floodlight from the power company sounds like a good solution. I personally don't recommend motion-detector lights ever as they don't always work. Sometimes they malfunction on their own, other times people help them malfunction.

If the 16,000 lumen flood light wasn't an option I would have suggested lights controlled by timer or photocell.

Solar LED path lights down your driveway, as previously mentioned, sound like a good idea too. While you're at it pick yourself up one of those solar backlit address signs just to further reinforce the idea that your driveway is not a public path.
 

tkl

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[ QUOTE ]
jbroker83 said:
TKL-- According to a recent article in "Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement" magazine, A bright, White light is one of the levels of self-defense. This article was written by a nationally known author who teaches self-defense for SWAT, LEO's, and FBI----the first level was a personal taser, a hand-held, that didn't shoot any prongs....due to the proximity involved---the next level, and this may surprise some, was a toss up between a bright, white light, and OC spray. He said that both can be used at a distance, both can be used to momentarily stop/disorient a person, and both can be easily carried on the person. I'm not sure about the law in CT, but in some states, it's illegal to use pepper spray, and in a lot of states, responding to a "you'll be sorry" with a 12 guage or a 1911 Kimber is not going to be viewed favoribly by the police. So, as the poster stated, he DID wish he had a tigerlite---but used what was available to him.


[/ QUOTE ] Gun rags are trash. Masaad Ayoob and the like promote items from companies they are bankrolled by. Alot of gun owners that have been around awhile will tell you the same thing. Ken Good at Strategos International has forgotten more than they will ever know and has actually seen combat.

a holstered pistol and pepper spray would be a minimum. Shining a light in somebodys face without proper tools and training is going to get you shot or beat.
 

KC2IXE

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[ QUOTE ]
gadgetboy said:
...snip... No need to introduce "shotguns" into your plan just yet. ...snip....

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, No way I would respond to that call without a serious weapon. The second he came at him the 3rd time, there is a direct threat - the guy is on his OWN property (and therefore in MOST states, NOT under an obligation to retreat) - I WOULD have displayed the weapon, and told him to LEAVE - and if he he came at me a 4 time, I WOULD have shot to kill.
 

RichardMT

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Well, it is easy for all of us to read this situation and tear his tactics apart while sitting comfortably and reading about it. The fact is what he did worked this time.

As for responding with a firearm, that would seem the sensible thing, however that does not guarantee success. There are trained officers killed in the line of duty while toting a belt full of equipment including batons, firearms and lights.

Your wife may very well have started to panic, but at least she did think to get on the phone and get help on the way, very smart.

Your wife should have left and called the police while on the move. However, many people have not played out various situations ahead of time in thier mind and have not planned well for surprises. You guys were lucky and can now use this as a lesson. Another thing is she may simply have known to leave, but could not bring herself to leave her husband to face the danger by himself, good intention if not smart. It is something you all can discuss in detail, that it would be better if she got away to safely call for help.

As for the suggestion above about maybe firing into the air, that is movie stuff. Remember that what goes up (bullet) must come down (possibly on somebody not involved) and you are responsible for every bullet that you fire.

As for using deadly force, justified or not, you will most likely end up in court anyway. The best thing to do is find out laws in your area. In many places there are things considered implied threats. The guy doesnt have to tell you hes going to kill you, you simply need to decide very quick if his approaching you is to scare you or hurt (or kill) you. Only you were in a position to decide that based on all his actions, we can only guess by reading.

You know how it is when you are not doing much, you begin to think about little things just to keep you brain working or whatever. Use some of that time to think through bad situations and what you may do if something happens. For instance people think about what they might do if somebody began harrasing them on the road. You think, dont lead them to your house, lead them to a well populated area and keep an eye out for a police car. So when that really happens, you react with your plan, you dont panic and drive straight home.

Bet ya thought I was not going to bore you with a story of my own /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
One night my wife and I went out to dinner. We were driving home about 1030pm. For absolutely no reason I could think of a car roared up on us, went around us and slammed on him breaks while flippin us the bird. I managed not to hit him somehow. I could see about 5 people in the car (probably teen-agers trying to show each other how macho they were). They continued to follow and harrass for several minutes while tossing pop cans at us. My first instinct was to try and get them to pull over and see just how tough the little punks were. However common sense prevailed. I took into account that we were in a large pick-up truck and they were in a small car. Any attempt by them to actually try and stop and block us would have been futile. I did have my knife and a maglite in the truck so we may have not been totally helpless (or they may have had a gun and we would have been in deep trouble). I continued driving until we spotted a police car at which time I turned to follow and started flashing my hi-beams and honking until she stopped. Naturally the guys continued on. By the time the cop finished asking us questions (and treating us like we were bothering her) the guys were long gone. She did nothing with the tag number we gave her. The point is we got out of the situation without a fight. I had though about these situations before and when it happened I followed my plan.

Anyways, very glad you made it out ok.

Note: My ramblings above are just my opinion, I am not military, lawyer, "tactical dude", or writer for a gun rag. Take it for what its worth.
 

paulr

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1. It sounds to me like that encounter was more confrontational than it needed to be. When the guy asked Chris's wife who she was and what she was doing, she could have just said "I live here and I'm coming home from work, do you need anything?". The guy was not a terrorist, he was just some jerk trying to boff his girlfriend at a not-so-great location.

As for coming out with a gun, carrying it concealed is useless and carrying it drawn is asking for trouble. The right way IMO is to carry it undrawn, but in an open holster in plain sight. No need to draw it, the guy will see it and rethink his belligerence.
 

Wits' End

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Reading this and sort of knowing the area chrisn1niq is in, as well as many in the US. I will make a recomendation not having to do directly with this situation.
Have a safe room in your home. A good door with a deadbolt, a phone and no easy outside access. A deadbolt on an interior door may sound strange (it did to me) but it could save your, or a loved ones, life.
 

Wolfen

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Showing a gun is like throwing gasoline on a fire. It often inflames people to do very dangerous things. By all means have one, just don't show it until you are ready to use it.
Flashlights and pepper spray first, deadly force last!

That reminds me, have to order more pepper spray for the family. Glad everything turned out ok.
 

jbroker83

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tkl--did you see my post on the Combat Tactics?? Those were written by some pretty credible sources. Why does the FBI and US Marshals train each of thier academy members how to effectively use and defend/offense with a tactical flashlight?? They must know something most don't. A quote from one of the articles...."in a confrontation that may lead to violence, your number one priority is to effectively end the confrontation in whatever means necessary. Use anything for a weapon...too many people think that a gun, knive, and baton are the only effective weapons. Be aware of your surroundings, and use them to your advantage..." tkl---not trying to argue, only to know that I feel safe with two things on me, a tactical flashlight and a kershaw/ken onion--- obviously, if a situation has gotten to a point where I would need to use the knife for self/survival-defense, then I'd be justified in using it.
 

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