Legacy light thread

bykfixer

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Thanks xx. Great info.

I read somewhere the SureFire's first light was a weapon mounted light that used "camera" batteries in 1985. That the CR cell was devised in "the 1970's" for use in SLR cameras and camera flash's. But that was the limit of info I could find.

Early on Tekna lore they had a CR123 dive light too.

And apparently Benjamin Franklin devised the first lithium battery idea.

So I suppose the next legacy entry should be about....
Wait for it....

The 6volt flashlight using lithium primaries.
 
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xxo

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I remember the Tekna light, but I wasn't sure exactly when it came out.

Apparently the first commercial lithium camera battery was the 2L76 developed in 1980 and put on the market by Sanyo and Mallory in 1981 – this was said to be the first lithium manganese dioxide camera battery. The 3V 2L76 was designed to replace two 1.5V silver oxide EXP76 or MS76 button cells which were commonly used in cameras, but due to their short shelf life were often dead by the time the camera was sold causing a lot of complaints from customers. The new lithium 2L76 was rated for 5 + years of shelf life was intended to solve this problem, but for some reason it caused many of the cameras to think the battery was dead and shut down or to have other malfunctions, leading to the development of the larger BR-2/3A. At around this time Duracell came out with the 6V PX28L lithium battery intended as a replacement for the silver oxide PX28 batteries used in many Cannon and Nikon cameras. The CR-2/3A went back to the MD chemistry because it offered better performance at low temperatures and a little higher capacity.
 
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bykfixer

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More good info xx. Mucho gracious.

Being that Dr. John Matthews had begun his business with gun mounted lasers it is logical his lighting tools would include a fuel source that the military was interested in. (ie CR123 fuel.)

The Tekna company began about the time alluminum tube flashlights were really becoming popular (1974) and about the time Dr Matthews had sold his laser invention to the US military. But Tekna was making diving products and used lightweight plastics in their flashlights to aid in making them buoyant. It appears as though they began making lights well after John Matthews had used lithium fuel for his products.

The current owner of Tek-Tite is a member here. 'Scott@tek-tite' is his user name. But he is the second owner of Tekna lighting tools who sold the company to a few different others. Rayovac bought some of the inventions, a famous dive dude bought the diving knives etc.

http://www.tek-tite.com/proddetail.php?prod=Tektite-TEKNA_History
A link to Tekna history.
I've yet to see exactly when they began making the 6 volt splashlight, which was one of their early products that went with their 3 volt lights that used a proprietary 3 volt cell the size of a pair of N cells end to end. They used the E10 screw in type bulb (10mm edison style).

PK told me at one point in early SureFire days they used bulbs made by Streamlight that went into the Scorpion.

At that time Streamlight had lost a huge case to Maglite for of all things a stamped bezel. Yup Maglite to this day owns that. So they needed cash and fast. John needed light bulbs. They worked out a deal until Carley was chosen to supply SureFire.

The US military had a soft spot in their heart for Streamlight for making a 5 million candle power light for NASA in the Apollo days (called Streamlite back then) so they gladly bought a bunch of Scorpions when they first were conceived. It probably saved Streamlight. But SureFire's 6P was more popular with soldiers.
 
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xxo

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The Explorer brand light/survival knife kit that I was thinking about may well have been made by Tekna.....I see that Tekna made a similar knife that held a splashlight in the handle. A while ago, someone had a similar Explorer brand knife that he said he got in the late 80's and still had the original CR123 battery. I have a different Explorer brand knife (sort of a high end K-Bar style knife made in Japan). The Explorer knives were all high quality some made in USA, some Japan, I think they were popular around the time of the first gulf war.
 

bykfixer

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The next is the 'portable' 6 volt flashlight.

IMG-20190427-081652.jpg

Former 6 volt versus new 6 volt.
I used the term portable because at one point it took a body about the size of a souvenier baseball bat to achieve 6 volts in a flashlight until the camera battery was utilized. Either C or D cells were the norm for decades. Putting out about 1.2 volts each it took 5 cells end to end to add up to 6 volts. 1.2 x 5 = 6.0.

As mentioned above by xxo, the military was interested in lighting from smaller, more powerful fuel sources. The military not one to shy away from potentially harmful compounds was also not shy about investing big resources into new ideas.

Enter Dr. John Matthews. Many here know the SureFire owner John Matthews had invented a laser system for use as a forward projecting sight for guns. If I recall correct it was the US Navy that bought the patent. Perhaps for use by Marines but that is speculation on my part. Anyway, most do not know that he also played a part in the invention of light transferred through glass that ended up becoming fiber optic transmission cables later. Those two inventions left Dr Matthews in a positive situation cash-flow-wise. Another little known fact is that John Matthews wanted to produce his own pistols. That part never came to fruition though. Suffice it to say the pistol had already been invented.

Instead he went the way of the flashlight. He perfected the use of camera batteries and over driven bi-pin light bulbs in a what was seen at the time as a tiny flashlight.

So this legacy I'll simply call "the SureFire phenomenon".

The use of alluminum tubing was already perfected. Mr. Maglica was riding high on his portable flashlight called 'the minimag'. At about 15 candle power it was a huge success as now military and police could carry a viable backup to the larger flashlights of the day. It could easily light up a room in pitch black conditions or focus to toss a beam out some 50 feet away in a dark alleyway. Yet in a little known shed sized facility behind a warehouse in California, a much brighter 'minimag' sized light was being conceived.

By the late 1980's millions of $19.99 minimags roamed the streets at night. Meanwhile the new $65 "laser products" number called "the SureFire" was barely noticed. "$65? For a flashlight? Are you kidding?" By then Dr. Matthews has bought that warehouse near his 2 room shed and outfitted it to make Laser Products flashlights. It was a big shed. At least big enough to have a drawing table, a secretary and an office for Dr. Matthews.

Word started getting out of the Laser Products new gizmo and when the phone rang with a potential new customer it was usually asked "got any of those SureFire's in stock?" One day it was decided to rename the company SureFire. Throughout the 1990's the now called SureFire company was not making a profit. Yet undaunted by that Dr Matthews invention was gaining market share and had landed a military contract. By then they were devising alternatives to the fabled 6.

A flashlight about the size of an average man's hand that put out as much light as a cutting torch, but could easily light up a small warehouse was a huge change. But it was expensive. The average Joe was not on board yet. Nor were police departments.

By 2000 the flashlight world was changed forever. Competion had sprung up by Streamlight a dive light maker called Pelican, and another new outfit soon followed called Pentagon. Providing camera battery powered flashlights for less cost than the SureFire helped cement the notion of tactical flashlights being small and bright. Reliability was key. Twisty on/off switches were the norm. SureFire had an invention called the lock out switch.

Streamlight developed a tiny version of their big rechargeable light called the SL20 with one called The Strion. SureFire had tried a rechargeable light that never caught on. By then they were also using a plastic called Nitrolon for their more affordable G2 line. It met with great success in time.

The undisputed King, Maglite was still selling well. The world was still ok with the big sized flashlight. In the 1980's Margaret Thatchers military were issued D sized Maglites mounted to rifles and minimags were issued to police (bobbies) across the big pond. There are photos on the web of her security detail outfitted with Maglite clad rifles. But Maglite was facing an unknown foe at the time.

By the mid 2000's LED's were becoming the norm, yet they were still largely seen as a novelty by the masses.

In 2000 a forum called Candle Power was begun. It centered around folks who devised ways of making the flashlight super bright using all kinds of marvelous inventions or methods that achieved maximum output from a light bulb. Through politics some early pioneers started other forums for this reason or that. But Candle Power remained popular. Folks like PK, Scott Mele (Tek-Tite owner), Don Keller, and flashlight guru Bill Utley were particpating members back then.

The 'portable' 6 volt flashlight spawned an entire industry, be it alternatives to "the SureFire 6" or just ways to make the wheel go round and round even better.

Here in 2019 SureFire still plays the game with largely domestic products assembled in the warehouse behind the shed. Maglite is still trying to catch up in a crowded market replete with foreign built products, while Pelican and Streamlight catalogs are still expanding their niche roles for targeted markets.

The days of that tiny flashlight powered by camera batteries for military uses is being replaced with night vision gear. Meanwhile millions upon millions of Joe 6 pack homes are outfitted with alluminum tube flashlights.
 
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xxo

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Thanks Much for the info Bykfixer!

a few random thoughts:

I think the Surefire 2 CR123A lights came along at a good time, many law enforcement agencies were getting away from the big Maglites and discouraging them for a substitute for a baton and 2 CR123A lights really took off when more affordable options from Streamlight and others came on the market. Streamlight has long been a go to for law enforcement while Surefire seems to be oriented a bit more towards the Military, large agencies, like the FBI and a tiny group of flashlight enthusiasts (CPF seemed like a Surefire forum in the early days).


Surefire used to advertise a lot and I think they were the first to taught lumens instead of candle power…. I think this was because a 2 cell Surefire had almost the same lumens as a 4 Cell Mag but not near as much candlepower or throw.

One thing that was nice about the Streamlights is that many held a spare bulb inside the head, while the Surefires had big/expensive prefocused bulb/reflector assemblies that you had to carry separately.


Maglite had just broken into the consumer market in a big way and had still had a good amount of military and law enforcement sales but for some reason never came out with a 2 CR123A incandescent light. Maglite only belatedly came out with a LED 2 CR123 with the Mag Tac originally for a military contract (the military likes to buy products made in the USA and except for Surefire and Mag, most of the others have moved production to China). The Mag Tac is an excellent design but it doesn't seem to be a big seller for Mag in what is a very crowded field with all of the Surefires, Streamlights, Pelicans and Chinese brand 2 CR123 lights out there.


BTW the SAS guys had MP5's with big 4 or 5 cell Mags cobbled to them back in the 80's - the lights were near as big and heavy as the guns they were mounted on!
 

bykfixer

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Good thoughts xx.

If the MagTac were shaped like a standard Mag with a 2x123 fuel I'd probably have some. Shaped like an XL50,100 etc just doesn't interest me. Indeed it is a great light.

I like the XL50 a whole bunch but it mentally just doesn't click with my brain that it's a flashlight.

I suppose I'll do some 'coulda been' legacy lights that just didn't catch on someday. MagTac will be included.
 
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xxo

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Maybe a more Mag looking Mag Tac would have sold better. To be sure, the Mag Tac is derived from the Xl series, but it is a completely different animal in terms of looks, feel and performance. The XL's always seemed liked puffed up Solitaires to me and feel kind of toyish (although the XL 100 was very innovative with lots of cool features leading to a complicated UI). The Mag Tac looks much better with the hard anno'd grenade grip, feels better in hand too, and operation is simple - overall it gives me the impression of a no nonsense tactical light, which it what it is.
 

InvisibleFrodo

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I'd agree that the XL series does feel like a big solitaire. I actually own all three 100, 200, 50. They don't see use anymore, but there was a time when my XL100 and my Nitecore EA4 were my most carried lights...
I've been eyeing the spectrum series XL50 for some time now. Anyone here try one? How is the beam pattern? I was actually super impressed with the spectrum solitaire. The beam pattern is really really nice and I love the tint.
 

bykfixer

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This one is focuses on "the doctor light". The fabled pen light.

Very early in flashlight history portable was a goal. But prior to the reliable dry cell folks had to deal with a cord. The vest pocket light had been invented where the user could place said portable light in their vest pocket and pull it out when needed. They were about the size and shaped like a little whiskey flask. Some of the earliest used a wet cell attached to a cord that stayed in a gentlemen's trouser pocket. Not very convenient.

IMG-20190504-092751.jpg

True gentlemen's light of the time.
Leather covered, focus'd globe little light started it all.
Picture borrowed from Gotalight.net

Soon after the dry cell idea seemed like it was here to stay companies like Eveready and Franco devised a battery pack that was basically what we now know as AA batteries inside a wrapping that had a small cord from it that attached inside the light. They were a side by side configuration. Some were both positive up, some were not.

I do not know who invented the pen light, nor when but at some point by the 1930's there were AA battery tube flashlights. They became popular with doctors, dentists, rescue workers and gun smiths etc.

IMG-20190504-082454.jpg

Some examples.
Bottom to top:
- 1940's Burgess
- 1950's Underwood
- 1970's Eveready
- Early 2000's Streamlight Stylus LED. (Touting "ice blue" beam)
- 1950's Rayovac nickel plated twisty.
The penlight in essence was a 2 cell tube with a push button on the tail that did not hold like modern day lights. It stayed on until you let go of the button.

IMG-20190504-082520.jpg

The Burgess touted a comfy rubber coating.
Big deal at the time versus the stabby Underwood button. Like said the Rayovac was a twisty.

These lights used a focus tip'd bulb that sent all 2-6 candle power forward versus the typical floody beams from bigger lights.

IMG-20190504-082600.jpg

A magnifier at the tip.
Early optics later used in modern day zoomers and throwers LED Lensers or SureFire Backups.

IMG-20190504-083116.jpg

A typical bulb of the early days in flashlights.
It produced a floody beam that relied on the chosen nickel plated reflector of the day, which were not very shiney. So dull in fact some chose a white coating instead.

A family operation in Conneticut devised a typical slider switch based off the 1aa Tom Thumb lights of the 40's and 50's.

IMG-20190504-082321.jpg

The HIPCO was a nice little light.
With the advent of the slider switch came the 'wack-a-palm method as the internal copper and brass sliding parts were not very efficient at optimum connections. Back then it was normal to move around the tv antenna for fuzz free viewing or wack-a-palm for best flashlight output. Usually a light tap would do.

So at some point when visiting a doctor they had a 2aa light in their white coat chest pocket and used the focus tip to shine in your ear, your nose, "say ahhh" and into your throat. It was a style of flashlight that remained intact all the way up to the LED days.

I speculate that an enterprising person swapped out a globe bulb for a focus tip'd bulb to cause their baby cop light to shine 15-25 feet forward while searching for Chester the cat looking for a dropped coin way back when.

The HIPCO used 1aaa battery. The Streamlight used 3aaaa batteries. Not a typo, there used to be 4a batteries used in penlights for that super slim pocket light. Good luck finding those in a grocery store these days. My local Batteries Plus Bulbs said "yeah we can order you some of those".

Now days penlights come in all kinds of configurations such as bendy's, coin cell operated antenna type, bright throwers like a Streamlight Stylus Pro, or floody doctor /inspection lights.
IMG-20190504-091947.jpg

A few examples of modern day 'doctor lights'.
There's even a penlight that well...writes like a pen.

IMG-20190504-091847.jpg

Two of my favorites.
The right angle mechanics light that uses a magnifier lens to maximize the 3 lumen coin cell sipping LED and the 100 lumen minimag shirt pocket light.

IMG-20190504-091821.jpg

Using ancient technology.
Super lightweight lights up an engine bay (or your childs throat) very well. Can be a straight, or right angle or in between.

Yup, the early doctor light has a lasting legacy still being expanded upon in 2019.
 
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xxo

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Thanks for the write up on these Byk.

Penlights were around during the first world war - they were known as "Spy lights" because of their concealability, but I am sure they were used a lot by soldiers in the trenches. These were apparently powered by what we know today as 2 AA's, but back then they would have been known by the battery maker's proprietary number and likely consisted of 2 cells wrapped in a "battery" (the AA designation was not used until long after world war one).


BTW, 6 - AAAA's are what's inside a alkaline 9V battery, though the polarity is usually reversed (button end negative).
 

bykfixer

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More good info xx. I had not heard the term "spy" light, but it makes sense.

By the end of WW2 the advent of plastics gave way to the 1aa 'lipstick' light that later were called Tom Thumb lights. These days some would call them jewel thief (joule) lights.
IMG-20190505-120527.jpg

A crude lipstick light.
Brass tube that had a small piece of wire molded into the tip to complete the circuit between battery and bulb.

IMG-20190505-121734.jpg

The original style lipstick light.
Shown with a nickel plated HIPCO Tom Thumb style I incorparated a #112 bulb in for a jewel thief dim light. The original 'lipstick' light had a plastic end for dispersing light like a traffic wand and magnifier tip bulb for throw. It also inovated a twisting clicky switch. Twist until a click for on, twist again to click it off again. Shown is a generic lipstick light.

Kwik-Lite made a 1aa they named Tom Thumb that were very popular post WW2. Big companies like Rayovac and Energizer made version of their Big Jim Commander and Sportsman in those sizes. I suppose these led to todays keychain lights and the Mag Solitaire.

I also found a 1950's dentist light by Rayovac that used a 3 way toggle switch. It was in my nightstand drawer with the lipstick and Tom Thumb. Toggle left or right for on, back to center for off.
IMG-20190505-121655.jpg

Nice nickel plated body.

I did some reading this morning at Stuart Scheiders page at the Flashlight Museum and he wrote that vest pocket lights had "B" cells, not AA like I had said in my previous post.

IMG-20170906-204206.jpg

My little 1912 Franco pistol did use a AA battery pack though.

I've been thinking of having flashlight guru Steve Giterman build me a battery pack for it. He repairs old lights and builds battery packs upon request. He taught me the initial steps in getting antique flashlights working again.

IMG-20190505-115002.jpg

A sample of his collection
 
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xxo

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During WWI, spys would have used lights to mark locations of landing or airdrop locations – back them spys behind enemy lines mostly used carrier pigeons to communicate. During WW2 spy lights became more sophisticated and were used in conjunction with special radio signals.

The B cell was used a lot early on, usually in batteries consisting of 2 or 3 cells side by side (like the 4.5V 3R12 battery) – these were used in box and flask shaped pocket lights, small lanterns and in early radio sets.
 

bykfixer

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The classic D cell Maglite.

The original D size was introduced in about 1979. All through the 80's it was the undisputed king of durable flashlights thanks to a ridiculously durable body and a very reliable switch system. A cam'd reflector made it adjustable from an old school floody beam (repleat with ugly donut hole and filament shadows) to a pencil beam spot with an incredible (for the time) throw from a new kid on the block krypton gas bulb.

At first they had the typical PR base argon gas bulb. Don Keller told me while working at Maglite his first stint he helped perfect the krypton bulb. When asked "what should we call it" he said "the krypton bulb". It stuck. Mag called it the White Star krypton.

Later Mag developed the PR based xenon gas bulb. It was called Magnum Star xenon. At one point they devised a bi-pin bulb called "Magnum Star II xenon. Refill packages allowed it to replace the PR based bulbs since it included an adapter.

Eventually Maglite joined the new millenium with LED versions. My first 2D LED was called "Pro". I bought it at Home Depot for $35 in 2014. It was next to a $20 incan version. I do not recall the lumen output it stated. But it threw like a classic Maglite with a hint of ice blue in the beam.

At my local WalMart there was a 168 lumen 2D was common in 2016. Recently Maglite has introduced a 213 lumen version with a low setting.

The 2D Maglite was/is certainly a legacy.

BRB with pix.

IMG-20190518-111629.jpg

Some versions over the decades.
2 and 3D versions from the 80's to a few days ago. Top two are 3D krypton versions circa early 2000's. Next is a pair of 80's with lanyard tailcaps.
Bottom are a new black 213 version and blue 168 lumen version of the LED version.
I do not know what became of my "Pro" version.

The simple genious cam'd reflector.
IMG-20190518-115419.jpg

A new twist on an old idea (no pun intended) where twisting the head relocated the bulb versus reflector to change beam character. Kel-Lite came up with a washer setup to tweak the bulb for throw or spot. Early Mag 7D bulb packages came with washers for that purpose.

IMG-20190518-115557.jpg

The various Mag bulbs post argon.

The 7D bulb with washers.
IMG-20190518-121611.jpg


IMG-20190518-121541.jpg

Make your 7 cell light better.

An improved 2C by Kel-Lite circa 1974 using a Mag bulb.
IMG-20190518-122358.jpg

A pair of LifePo4 18500's, 4 cell PR based Magnum Star xenon, ultra clear lens and a washer for better throw.
That little number puts out about 100 lumens.
 
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xxo

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IIRC, the white star krypton bulbs were sold as upgrades to the standard vacuum bulbs, later they came out with the xenon PR bulbs (which are my favorites) and the krypton bulbs became standard at around that time. I think they should have just standardized on the xenons and have been done with it as these give the brightest, whitest and best focused beams. I still don't know why Mag went to the trouble and expense of the new bipin xenon bulbs and bulb holders so late int he incan game, these are not as good as the PR xenons because they seem to be near impossible to get the perfectly centered for a good beam.
 

bykfixer

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~snip~

Penlights were around during the first world war - they were known as "Spy lights" because of their concealability, but I am sure they were used a lot by soldiers in the trenches. These were apparently powered by what we know today as 2 AA's, but back then they would have been known by the battery maker's proprietary number and likely consisted of 2 cells wrapped in a "battery" (the AA designation was not used until long after world war one). ~snip~

So I'm watching this crime show series set in the early 1980's where season 1 was circa 1980. Season 4 1983. So time is passing not quite a year per season. Russian spies and government agents trying to outwit each other. It's called "the Americans".

Anyway, twice the Russian spy dude had a minimag sized flashlight in a couple of scenes where he was cracking a safe or pilfering through a desk. Now they were not minimag shaped at the head, but more like a parallel sides with slightly larger diameter to the body. One time it was a black body. Another time silver. An FBI agent went pilfering through an apartment with a red beam from his 2aa light with same shape. The show depicts pretty acurate props and the minimag was not available in 1983.

When the scenes begin they show the lights already on and end the scenes without showing them turning off said flashlights. It causes me to think "hmmmm, what did the minimag improve upon?" The Mag C and D improved upon the alluminum tube light of the late 60's to late 70's. But lights shown on the show appear to be tactical shaped 2aa pre-minimag.

I have several post mimimag tactical numbers but nothing pre-minimag, nor did I know any existed until watching the tv show. I wonder if the super spy agencies had technology unavailable at the time regarding 2aa flashlights akin to spy pens, spy cams, and other miniature (for the time) gizmos. Or perhaps they were using an available light not known to the general public at that time that was meant for police detectives and CIA types?

While the minimag has now crossed the 300 lumen threshold I'll be researching tactical 2aa flashlights from the pre-minimag era to see just what super-sleuths used to use in order to fill a gap in the history of the legacy light, the 2aa.
 
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Grijon

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What a wonderful thread!

Thank you for the great history shared here.

I second Archimedes - I hope there's a book in development here. :)
 

xxo

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So I'm watching this crime show series set in the early 1980's where season 1 was circa 1980. Season 4 1983. So time is passing not quite a year per season. Russian spies and government agents trying to outwit each other. It's called "the Americans".

Anyway, twice the Russian spy dude had a minimag sized flashlight in a couple of scenes where he was cracking a safe or pilfering through a desk. Now they were not minimag shaped at the head, but more like a parallel sides with slightly larger diameter to the body. One time it was a black body. Another time silver. An FBI agent went pilfering through an apartment with a red beam from his 2aa light with same shape. The show depicts pretty acurate props and the minimag was not available in 1983.

When the scenes begin they show the lights already on and end the scenes without showing them turning off said flashlights. It causes me to think "hmmmm, what did the minimag improve upon?" The Mag C and D improved upon the alluminum tube light of the late 60's to late 70's. But lights shown on the show appear to be tactical shaped 2aa pre-minimag.

I have several post mimimag tactical numbers but nothing pre-minimag, nor did I know any existed until watching the tv show. I wonder if the super spy agencies had technology unavailable at the time regarding 2aa flashlights akin to spy pens, spy cams, and other miniature (for the time) gizmos. Or perhaps they were using an available light not known to the general public at that time that was meant for police detectives and CIA types?

While the minimag has now crossed the 300 lumen threshold I'll be researching tactical 2aa flashlights from the pre-minimag era to see just what super-sleuths used to use in order to fill a gap in the history of the legacy light, the 2aa.



I don't recall very much in the 2AA format beyond a few plastic cheapies from the pre-mini Mag era. I don't think that the mini mag was based on anything it was intended to improve on – just a 2AA light with the looks and durability of the big C and D cell mags. It was also intended to function as a kuboton.


Don't know about special light designed for spys; I would guess that they would use standard lights if possible.

Here is an excellent docudrama on how spys used flashlights and more sophisticated means to set up drop/landing zones in occupied France during WW2:




The actual British SOE operatives and French resistance played themselves in the film and they mentioned using "ordinary little pocket lamps with 4 Volt batteries" (presumably 3R12 4.5V), though several different types of flashlights are shown throughout the film.


It is also kinda neat that the used an old truck that ran on charcoal and wood chips to deliver Bren guns.


There were a lot of penlights developed for aviators and even astronauts (there was a thread on one of these not too long ago). Often flight crews used red filters on their penlights. BTW I think(?) that the reason AAAA penlights were developed was to fit inside the pen loops on flight suits.
 
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