Dobbler
Enlightened
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 503
What are the current bugs and latest firmware, and how does one tell what firmware the unit has?
Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger
- Thread starter SilverFox
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello Cy,
Like LuxLuthor, I got mine from Thomas Distributing.
Tom
Like LuxLuthor, I got mine from Thomas Distributing.
Tom
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello Cy,
While your Triton and Schulze are busy with Li-Ion charging, the C9000 can help with NiMh charging. That should be enough reason, but just to push you over the edge if indecision, the Break-In mode is great for new cells.
Tom
While your Triton and Schulze are busy with Li-Ion charging, the C9000 can help with NiMh charging. That should be enough reason, but just to push you over the edge if indecision, the Break-In mode is great for new cells.
Tom
PEU
Flashlight Enthusiast
Do eneloops also benefit from a break in cycle?
Pablo
Pablo
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello Pablo,
We have not seen much of an improvement using the Break In mode on Eneloop cells. I think they get a break in cycle at the factory.
I think you can get by without it.
There have been a couple of people mention that the RayOVac Hybrid cells seem to gain a small amount using the Break In mode, but not a lot.
I reserve the right to change my mind after using Eneloop cells for a couple more years...
Tom
We have not seen much of an improvement using the Break In mode on Eneloop cells. I think they get a break in cycle at the factory.
I think you can get by without it.
There have been a couple of people mention that the RayOVac Hybrid cells seem to gain a small amount using the Break In mode, but not a lot.
I reserve the right to change my mind after using Eneloop cells for a couple more years...
Tom
Rob187
Enlightened
Wow, what a review.
I ordered one just now and should have it in 3-4 days. If it is only half as good as you say, it will be worth it.
I ordered one just now and should have it in 3-4 days. If it is only half as good as you say, it will be worth it.
Tom,
That's a great comparison review of both chargers. In Test Mode, by the way, the Capacity is displayed at the end of the Discharge Phase and REMAINS through the entire 2nd Charge Phase until you remove the battery. You mentioned that it is not visible during the 2nd Charge Phase.
I already purchased the LaCrosse BC-900 and do not see enough of a reason to dump it and replace it with the MH-C9000. I'll wait until the next generation comes out to pick a new model then.
One advantage I see with the C9000 is the ability to only Discharge non-rechargeable batteries. However, the spec sheets available on the Internet already reveal that information. The larger display of the C9000 and the backlight is also an advantage. Usually, I have to shine a flashlight on the BC-900 display to see it properly.
An advantage of the BC-900 is to continually display information for all 4 cells. I usually display voltage to see where I am in each cycle.
The big advantage of the BC-900 is the shorter cycle times and the abscence of the rest times. I get a full Test Mode Cycle in 12 hours. I really wouldn't want to wait 39 hours for the same cycle.
The reversal of size of charge and discharge currents between the 2 are not material to a casual user like myself. I doubt that it really matters much.
That's a great comparison review of both chargers. In Test Mode, by the way, the Capacity is displayed at the end of the Discharge Phase and REMAINS through the entire 2nd Charge Phase until you remove the battery. You mentioned that it is not visible during the 2nd Charge Phase.
I already purchased the LaCrosse BC-900 and do not see enough of a reason to dump it and replace it with the MH-C9000. I'll wait until the next generation comes out to pick a new model then.
One advantage I see with the C9000 is the ability to only Discharge non-rechargeable batteries. However, the spec sheets available on the Internet already reveal that information. The larger display of the C9000 and the backlight is also an advantage. Usually, I have to shine a flashlight on the BC-900 display to see it properly.
An advantage of the BC-900 is to continually display information for all 4 cells. I usually display voltage to see where I am in each cycle.
The big advantage of the BC-900 is the shorter cycle times and the abscence of the rest times. I get a full Test Mode Cycle in 12 hours. I really wouldn't want to wait 39 hours for the same cycle.
The reversal of size of charge and discharge currents between the 2 are not material to a casual user like myself. I doubt that it really matters much.
TorchBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
You're not fooling me! 12 hours is not the same as 39 minus two hours for resting.
It's not the same cycle. On both chargers you have the ability to choose what charge and discharge rates you want, and the 39 hour thing is the standard IEC test (plus another slow charge). 12 hours isn't enough time for even the charging part of that test - 16 hours at 0.1C.
mircozorzo
Newly Enlightened
I dislike the default 1A charge setting, is it possible as workaround limit on the power supply (whit a resistance) the current at 0,4A for each cells?
I know that is possible to set using the buttons but I do not want.
Thanks, Mirco
Bye.
I know that is possible to set using the buttons but I do not want.
Thanks, Mirco
Bye.
Hitthespot
Flashlight Enthusiast
Tom,
I enjoyed this thread and the charger shoot out you did. Wonderful reference information, thank you.
I just purchased this ( MH-C9000) charger, and if I may, I have a couple of questions and would appreciate your opinion.
I would like to get maximum life out of my batteries and most of the time will not care too much about how long it takes to charge them. You had stated that at a low 200ma the charger may not terminate the charge cycle, which would obviously be detrimental to the battery life.
My question is how low would be low enough to get maximum battery life but still be high enough for charge termination? Would .25C be a good compromise? This would be 675ma on a 2700mah battery and 500ma on a 2000mah battery. EDIT: I missed it in the manual yesterday. I found it this morning. It is recommended to not charge below .3C. This brings up another questions in my mind. My Eneloop charger charges at .15C. It seems to me this would be best for my batteries from a longevity stand point, and is actually better than any safe charge cycle the C9000 can provide? Am I thinking right?
Second question. For maximum life, is it really necessary to Refresh and Analyze batteries that are used between two weeks and less than every three months like the manual says? I almost never cycle rechargables in less than two weeks. In this case I would be running a Refresh Analyze everytime I charge? It just doesn't seem like that much cycling is necessary.
Thanks
Bill
I enjoyed this thread and the charger shoot out you did. Wonderful reference information, thank you.
I just purchased this ( MH-C9000) charger, and if I may, I have a couple of questions and would appreciate your opinion.
I would like to get maximum life out of my batteries and most of the time will not care too much about how long it takes to charge them. You had stated that at a low 200ma the charger may not terminate the charge cycle, which would obviously be detrimental to the battery life.
My question is how low would be low enough to get maximum battery life but still be high enough for charge termination? Would .25C be a good compromise? This would be 675ma on a 2700mah battery and 500ma on a 2000mah battery. EDIT: I missed it in the manual yesterday. I found it this morning. It is recommended to not charge below .3C. This brings up another questions in my mind. My Eneloop charger charges at .15C. It seems to me this would be best for my batteries from a longevity stand point, and is actually better than any safe charge cycle the C9000 can provide? Am I thinking right?
Second question. For maximum life, is it really necessary to Refresh and Analyze batteries that are used between two weeks and less than every three months like the manual says? I almost never cycle rechargables in less than two weeks. In this case I would be running a Refresh Analyze everytime I charge? It just doesn't seem like that much cycling is necessary.
Thanks
Bill
Last edited:
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello Bill,
The improved C9000 now has no problem terminating even when charging at very low charge rates. When the battery reaches 1.47 volts, the main charge will terminate and the charger will go into top off mode. This means that you can pick any charge rate between 200 mA to 2000 mA and the C9000 will terminate. The primary termination method is -dV, but the back up termination of peak voltage also works well.
I might point out that the chemical engineers that design batteries are not usually consulted by the electrical engineers that design chargers...
The chemical engineers state that the best charge rate to generate a strong end of charge signal is in the 0.5 - 1.0C range. With Eneloop cells, that would be charging at 1000 - 2000 mA. The electrical engineers that put together the Eneloop chargers seem to have ignored this advice, and may have been under budget constraints.
At any rate, you won't immediately kill your cells by slow charging them, and if your charger design incorporates alternate methods of charge termination, you may even get decent cycle life from your cells. I find that you get the best performance by following the advice of the chemical engineers, but the electrical engineers seem to do a decent job too...
To keep your cells vibrant it is a good idea to discharge them and give them a break in cycle every 25 - 50 charge/discharge cycles, or once a year. If your cells are in storage, they should be stored discharged and given a charge/discharge cycle every 30 days. The low self discharge rate cells may give you a little more time between charge/discharge cycles so you may be able to extend the time to 60 days. With that said, we have seen Eneloop cells that are a couple of years old fall into shape very quickly after being stored with a partial charge and no other care. I have some of the initial Eneloop cells made and have been storing them on the shelf with no intervention. I plan to test them and see how well they perform after extended storage. We may find that the rules that we use for normal NiMh cells do not apply to the LSD cells.
Tom
The improved C9000 now has no problem terminating even when charging at very low charge rates. When the battery reaches 1.47 volts, the main charge will terminate and the charger will go into top off mode. This means that you can pick any charge rate between 200 mA to 2000 mA and the C9000 will terminate. The primary termination method is -dV, but the back up termination of peak voltage also works well.
I might point out that the chemical engineers that design batteries are not usually consulted by the electrical engineers that design chargers...
The chemical engineers state that the best charge rate to generate a strong end of charge signal is in the 0.5 - 1.0C range. With Eneloop cells, that would be charging at 1000 - 2000 mA. The electrical engineers that put together the Eneloop chargers seem to have ignored this advice, and may have been under budget constraints.
At any rate, you won't immediately kill your cells by slow charging them, and if your charger design incorporates alternate methods of charge termination, you may even get decent cycle life from your cells. I find that you get the best performance by following the advice of the chemical engineers, but the electrical engineers seem to do a decent job too...
To keep your cells vibrant it is a good idea to discharge them and give them a break in cycle every 25 - 50 charge/discharge cycles, or once a year. If your cells are in storage, they should be stored discharged and given a charge/discharge cycle every 30 days. The low self discharge rate cells may give you a little more time between charge/discharge cycles so you may be able to extend the time to 60 days. With that said, we have seen Eneloop cells that are a couple of years old fall into shape very quickly after being stored with a partial charge and no other care. I have some of the initial Eneloop cells made and have been storing them on the shelf with no intervention. I plan to test them and see how well they perform after extended storage. We may find that the rules that we use for normal NiMh cells do not apply to the LSD cells.
Tom
Hitthespot
Flashlight Enthusiast
Tom,
Most of my career was spent working with some of the finest old school electrical engineers. They just seemed to know everything about everything. When I first started working with them as a young man who knew nothing, I looked at them almost like royalty. However they were as down to earth as you could ask for. Never being impatient or short with me and taking as much time as I needed with them no matter how stupid my questions were. As the customer service manager of the same company I was in meetings with them and worked with them often, asking questions so I could answer customers questions associated with our Uninterruptible Power Supplies and Digital Static Transfer Switches. Starting there as a kid I really didn't know nothing about nothing, yet over the course of 24 years they taught me plenty, and I'm not just speaking of academics. I think of them almost like a son thinks of his father and will always believe that a lot of who I am today I owe to them. It has been years since I worked there and I'm sorry I never told them.
The information you spend so much time collecting and then sharing with everyone for their benefit is unmeasurable. I have spent hours just reviewing your C9000 information. I told you the story above because you remind me of the engineers I once worked with. I guess I'm just trying to say thank you for taking the time to answer my question in detail, and to let you know you could be making differences your not even aware of. Sorry if I did it a little long winded.
Thank You
Bill
Most of my career was spent working with some of the finest old school electrical engineers. They just seemed to know everything about everything. When I first started working with them as a young man who knew nothing, I looked at them almost like royalty. However they were as down to earth as you could ask for. Never being impatient or short with me and taking as much time as I needed with them no matter how stupid my questions were. As the customer service manager of the same company I was in meetings with them and worked with them often, asking questions so I could answer customers questions associated with our Uninterruptible Power Supplies and Digital Static Transfer Switches. Starting there as a kid I really didn't know nothing about nothing, yet over the course of 24 years they taught me plenty, and I'm not just speaking of academics. I think of them almost like a son thinks of his father and will always believe that a lot of who I am today I owe to them. It has been years since I worked there and I'm sorry I never told them.
The information you spend so much time collecting and then sharing with everyone for their benefit is unmeasurable. I have spent hours just reviewing your C9000 information. I told you the story above because you remind me of the engineers I once worked with. I guess I'm just trying to say thank you for taking the time to answer my question in detail, and to let you know you could be making differences your not even aware of. Sorry if I did it a little long winded.
Thank You
Bill
Last edited:
Bobo The Bear
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 34
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15870328&postcount=67
Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?
Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?
Hitthespot
Flashlight Enthusiast
I don't know if this guy knows what he is talking about or not, but this charger does have boat loads of nice features and I am very happy with it so far. It is not perfect though. After spending my first couple of days with it I've found some quirks I would change. These are strickly my opinion though. I think some minor software changes and an extra button would do it.
1) You can't turn the backlight off as long as there are batteries in it, and it seems like it will always have batteries in it.
2) Once a mode has completed you cannot move on to another mode without removing and reinstalling the batteries. ( unless I'm missing something). It needs a reset button. EDIT: You may be able to avoid removing the batteries by unplugging the unit and plugging it back in. I'm in the middle of a break in cycle and cannot try it right now.
3) You can't program all 4 bays at once. Each one must be programmed separately. This creates a number of more key punches.
4) I believe the Refresh Mode and the Break-In Mode should begin with a discharge cycle not a charge cycle. (They could give you an option to skip this if you feel you don't need it first.
5) The unit goes into default mode too quickly. It just dawned on me this would also stop you from unplugging and plugging the unit back in if you needed to program the charger as I stated in number two. You would never get to bay three and four in time.
6) The manual Could be much better. For instance: It says nothing about a top off charge the last two hours after the done appears. Also It says nothing about after the two hour top off charge if there is a continious trickle charge, and if so, what is the current of the trickle charge? EDIT. The manual does state there is a top off charge and a trickle charge but it does not state what the current applied is for either.
Maybe I'm being too picky.
Bill
1) You can't turn the backlight off as long as there are batteries in it, and it seems like it will always have batteries in it.
2) Once a mode has completed you cannot move on to another mode without removing and reinstalling the batteries. ( unless I'm missing something). It needs a reset button. EDIT: You may be able to avoid removing the batteries by unplugging the unit and plugging it back in. I'm in the middle of a break in cycle and cannot try it right now.
3) You can't program all 4 bays at once. Each one must be programmed separately. This creates a number of more key punches.
4) I believe the Refresh Mode and the Break-In Mode should begin with a discharge cycle not a charge cycle. (They could give you an option to skip this if you feel you don't need it first.
5) The unit goes into default mode too quickly. It just dawned on me this would also stop you from unplugging and plugging the unit back in if you needed to program the charger as I stated in number two. You would never get to bay three and four in time.
6) The manual Could be much better. For instance: It says nothing about a top off charge the last two hours after the done appears. Also It says nothing about after the two hour top off charge if there is a continious trickle charge, and if so, what is the current of the trickle charge? EDIT. The manual does state there is a top off charge and a trickle charge but it does not state what the current applied is for either.
Maybe I'm being too picky.
Bill
Last edited:
LED_Thrift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Very nicely put Hitthespot. CPF is a great community because of knowledgeable people who contribute their time and expertise, and Silverfox is at the top of that list.
TONY M
Flashlight Enthusiast
Hi Tom, I haven't been able to find an answer to this on the forum but how do I know if my C9000 is one of the newer versions that doesn't suffer from not terminating below 0.3C?
Many thanks.
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