Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

[UnknownVT]

I also posted basically this in another thread - but thought it may be of interest here -

I just got a Maha C9000 (code: 0H0FA) - so this is "novice" usage -
I ran a discharge test on 3 different sets of my LSDs to compare.

These were perhaps my least used sets -
which have had what I would term my "ignorant" usage -
ie: I just charge them in a cheapo smart charger (Soshine SC-C3 Intelligent Rapid Charger) and use -
recharge when necessary - usually after they get depleted (shutdown) in equipment.
But like I said these were my least used - 1 to 3 cycles may be....

I topped up charged each set then left on charger for 1 hour (trickle charged? I know, maybe I should have left them on for 2 hours but I was impatient - and those batteries were all relatively recently fully charged on my cheapo charger or the Maha C9000 anyway) -
turned charger off then started discharge at 0.2C (for all these = 400mA)

... Kodak Pre-Charged ...... eneloop ................... DuraLoop ................. Kodak P-C (1-4)
1) 1951 mAh (322min) .... 1878 mAh (311min) .... 1867 mAh (308min) .... 1966 mAh (325min)
2) 1961 mAh (326min) .... 1867 mAh (311min) .... 1858 mAh (308min) .... 1942 mAh (324min)
3) 1994 mAh (329min) .... 1900 mAh (315min) .... 1872 mAh (309min) .... 1993 mAh (330min)
4) 1944 mAh (323min) .... 1861 mAh (310min) .... 1868 mAh (310min) .... 1907 mAh (318min)

EDIT to ADD - I just finished another discharge of another set of Kodak Pre-Charged - these have had more "abusive" usage - as this is the set that I use for my flashlight reviews - so they often get top-up charges and rarey get fully discharged in normal usage - I bought these back on June/21/2007 so were first charged on my cheapo jWin charger - relatively "smart" using -dV detection, claimed output current - 900mA, but only charged in pairs - then after mid-Feb/2008 I used the Soshine SC-C3 Intelligent Rapid Charger and only charged 1 to 2 of these at a time taking advantage of the higher 1050mA charge current.

This time I did a top-up charge on the Maha C9000 and left the batteries on the charger (trickle charged?) for over 2 hours - then turned the charger off and back on for the discharge at ~ 0.2C (=400mA)

Once again, but basing on only 4 samplings - it would appear that my charger's slot #3 seemed to show the highest capacity.


The DuraLoops (Duracell Pre-Charged made in Japan with white tops) may have had a slight "advantage" I actually ran a refresh & analyze on those - but forgot to look in the 2 hour window and missed what capacity they read

It would appear on this sampling of only 3 sets, that slot (3) on my Maha C9000 may read higher than the other slots?

Also please see summary post #57 from eneloop vs. Kodak Pre-Charged Voltage Maintenance.

 

[StandardBattery]

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15870328&postcount=67

Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?

Does he sound "really" confused to you? Does he "really" know what he is talking about? I don't know, sounds to me like he knows a fair amount, and is certainly not really confused. He is right about the AAA charging, this is known, and I would not recommend charging AAA in the charger, but I'm not sure the gurus here have gone so far as to say that. I believe they will certainly confirm he is correct based on the current software. However, before I would say absolutely don't do it, we need to answer the question below.

WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW IS what triggers the point where the top-off charge begins? If it is delta-V, then he could very much have a valid point. If however it is a voltage-level, then everything is mostly fine.

I'd like to know more about the Break-In cycle comments. If he is more or less right on this point then I would say he knows a lot. I'm not a big fan of Break-In, I'm more of a manual charge, discharge kind of guy. Mainly though it is because I have not had the time or the proper situation to give it a real test.

 

[Hitthespot]

WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW IS what triggers the point where the top-off charge begins? If it is delta-V, then he could very much have a valid point. If however it is a voltage-level, then everything is mostly fine.

This is what I mean by my comment the manual could be a little better. They leave you with unanswered questions.

I have more to read and learn on this charger, but after reading that guys post a couple of more times, (I'm not sure what BB it was on) I'm not so sure his comments hold water, especially on the newer units.

Bill

 

[Lite_me]

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15870328&postcount=67

Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?

Just FYI, and make note, I am assuming here, that Mikeabcd from the linked forum above just may be the Mike_abcd from here.

He hasn't posted here in over a year and a half, but I remember him to be somewhat opinionated (aren't we all sometimes ), but certainly seemed to know what he was talking about. If interested, you could have a look at some of his old posts.

 

[Bobo The Bear]

I'm using a BC-900 now and am shopping for another charger, I have too many batteries, not enough chargers :laughing:.

I planned on getting a C9000 mainly for the Break In feature. Everything else besides that a BC-900 can do, maybe not as great as a C9000, but good enough for me. The BC-900 has no Break In type of feature at all.

If the Break In mode is not recommended for NIHMs per the post I linked previously there's no reason for me to get the C9000.

Also, per StandardBattery's post:

He is right about the AAA charging, this is known, and I would not recommend charging AAA in the charger, but I'm not sure the gurus here have gone so far as to say that.

This is surprising to me. AAA's not recommended?

 

[StandardBattery]

...
This is surprising to me. AAA's not recommended?

Note, I'm not recommending it, because I'm cautious. No one else I know of has said this. BUT I'M just being cautious until it's clear when this top off starts.

My understanding is on AA it may start before delta-V in the Current software revision, it seems like Maha made this change to counter earlier issues with the charger and to try to keep the batteries cooler during charging. Still, for AAA it looks like they still may need some tweaking. I'm sure more will be known soon.

You could buy the C808M if you need to charge a lot of cells.

 

[Black Rose]

I've been charging Eneloop, Rayovac Hybrid, Titanium Enduro LSD, and regular NiMh AAA cells in the C9000 and C800S for close to a year.

I have had no issues doing so.

Mike's post has errors in it IMHO. When charging an AA at 2000 mA, it IS going to get hot no matter what charger is doing it.

His advice about the Break-in cycle is flat out wrong. Take a look at what SilverFox says about it.

 

[TakeTheActive]

Who Really Cares?

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15870328&postcount=67

Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?

A better question, IMHO, is why do you even care about one post (from possibly a 'former' CPF member) on another forum when there is SO MUCH *EXCELLENT*, detailed, complete information, much of it from Moderator Tom (aka SilverFox) RIGHT HERE?

Many folks post 'whatever they feel at the moment' on the internet. I wonder quite often if someone was forced to use their REAL NAME and was replying to someone that they interfaced with on a regular basis and had some influence on their future, would they put any more THOUGHT into their posts?

 

[TakeTheActive]

Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...

...WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW IS what triggers the point where the top-off charge begins? If it is delta-V, then he could very much have a valid point. If however it is a voltage-level, then everything is mostly fine...

Why so much confusion / posting / 'hysteria' over ONE RANDOM POST on another forum?

Invest a few hours, do your own research and make your own 'informed' decisions.

For example, *IF* you had been reading the CPF Archives for several hours per week since ~Thanksgiving 2008 , you would know that SMART CHARGERS terminate on the *FIRST* of the following conditions (NOTE: Not all SMART CHARGERS check ALL of the following conditions, but, AFAICT, to be considered SMART, they need to check AT LEAST ONE, but preferably more, of the first THREE.):

1. DeltaV
2. MAX Voltage
3. MAX Temperature
4. MAX Time

...otherwise they'd be called DUMB CHARGERS.

Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]

...He is right about the AAA charging, this is known, and I would not recommend charging AAA in the charger, but I'm not sure the gurus here have gone so far as to say that...

Please provide some LINKs to support this statement.

If you choose an appropriate charging current (i.e. 0.5C) and don't get the AAA cells overly hot (1.0C or higher), I don't see why there would be any problem. 0.14C (100/700) or 0.12C (100/800) isn't so much current over Standard Charge that two hours worth is going to do any damage to the cell.

...I'd like to know more about the Break-In cycle comments. If he is more or less right on this point then I would say he knows a lot. I'm not a big fan of Break-In, I'm more of a manual charge, discharge kind of guy. Mainly though it is because I have not had the time or the proper situation to give it a real test.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sadly for me, though, is the fact that I have a difficult time letting incorrect information go by unchallenged (although the folks that I've personally deemed 'gurus' here don't seem to. ).

I enjoy learning new things. And, I enjoy sharing my knowledge and thereby, helping other people. So, if you GOOGLE my User ID, you'll find several FAQs (similar to the one in my Sig Line) on various forums.

READ, LEARN, LIVE LONG and PROSPER... :buddies:

 

[UnknownVT]

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15870328&postcount=67

Re: the post on SlickDeals from the opening statement:

" I orded it from Thomas Distributing before its release two years ago "

I am not an expert on the Maha C9000 but wasn't there some problem with early versions - that's pretty well known and documented?
(and his has to be an early version, since he ordered before it was even released)

 

[StandardBattery]

Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...

Why so much confusion / posting / 'hysteria' over ONE RANDOM POST on another forum?

Invest a few hours, do your own research and make your own 'informed' decisions.

For example, *IF* you had been reading the CPF Archives for several hours per week since ~Thanksgiving 2008 , you would know that SMART CHARGERS terminate on the *FIRST* of the following conditions (NOTE: Not all SMART CHARGERS check ALL of the following conditions, but, AFAICT, to be considered SMART, they need to check AT LEAST ONE, but preferably more, of the first THREE.):

1. DeltaV
2. MAX Voltage
3. MAX Temperature
4. MAX Time

...otherwise they'd be called DUMB CHARGERS.

Ya we're not talking about how they are suppose to work, were talking about how they work, in fact the debate was whether they were "DUMB CHARGERS" or "SMART CHARGES". There have been a few revisions you know, they weren't too smart on the first release.

Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]

This is true, but he is complaining about them charging too hot, and we're trying to be nice as a smart charger will charge them without making the cells reach max temperature. That's a safety mechanism and something a dumb charge might rely on.

Please provide some LINKs to support this statement.

Ummm msg 9 and msg 11? and several previous posting on the charger operation.

...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sadly for me, though, is the fact that I have a difficult time letting incorrect information go by unchallenged

I'm not giving any incorrect information, just an opinion and some ideas on how to determine the facts. In fact we are challenging the information given in the other form... but were not just dismissing it.


Well I to am trying to be helpful, I'm sorry if you don't see it that way.

:welcome:

 

[traveler]

Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...

I heard that MH-C9000 will have new model this year. Should I wait for a few months?

 

[Burgess]

And just WHERE did you hear this piece of information ? ? ?


We would simply LOVE an updated model,
with a USB interface connection.


:twothumbs
_

 

[Hoggy]

Is it really true that the C9000 will top off a AAA for 2 hours at 100 ma? Even during the 'rest' period between refresh-type cycles? If so, how damaging could that be? (100 ma for 2 hours sounds like an awful lot for AAA's.)
I've been reading the 'batteries' area here for over a year, but this is the first time I heard about the AAA thing.. (or, at least, comprehended it. )

I just received a BC-900 about 12 hours ago - to compliment my C9000. So should I use my bc-900 for my main AAA charging needs? And only use the Maha for break-ins and whatnot - for AAA's?

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Hoggy,

Yes there is a 2 hour top off after the charger shows done. The top off charge rate is 100 mA.

With AAA cells, it is not a problem if you charge at higher charge rates. For example, if you have 800 mAh cells, you should charge in the 500 - 800 mA range. If you do this, the charger will terminate on high voltage (1.47 volts) and utilize the top off charge to complete the charging process.

If you charge AAA cells at 200 mA, you could run into some problems with overcharge from the top off charge. Of course this would depend on the capacity of the cells you are charging.

Tom

 

[yite]

Thanks to everyone for such complete information!

I'm in the market for a charger with at least four independent charging circuits. While my Maha C204-W has four slots, it requires two batteries to run either "double bay", and I doubt that it's optimally charging batteries.

Want to make sure that the Maha MH-C9000 will absolutely, completely, independently charge each battery separately. However, Tom's original report of 02-25-2007 says that "In multi cell applications, your device will stop working when the lowest capacity cell runs out. To get the best performance in multi cell applications, you need to match your cells on capacity. This way they all run out at the same time. The discharge mode of the C9000 allows you to do this."

I may well be missing something, but wouldn't that mean that each slot is NOT charging its battery completely independent of the others?

 

[yite]

Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...

Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]


[quotation above from TakeTheActive on 01-14-2009]

Does this mean that the Maha MH-C9000 will NOT fully charge batteries?!

 

[vali]

Yes, the C9000 will charge completely every single cell since and every slot have its own channel.

When Tom was talking about multi-cell applications and that the device will stop working when the first cell run out, that device is the one where you use the cells (a flashlight or whatever), not the charger itself (in fact, if I am not wrong, the device will not stop working, but the "good" cells will start to reverse charging the depleted cell).

 

[yite]

Why so much confusion / posting / 'hysteria' over ONE RANDOM POST on another forum?

Invest a few hours, do your own research and make your own 'informed' decisions.

For example, *IF* you had been reading the CPF Archives for several hours per week since ~Thanksgiving 2008 , you would know that SMART CHARGERS terminate on the *FIRST* of the following conditions (NOTE: Not all SMART CHARGERS check ALL of the following conditions, but, AFAICT, to be considered SMART, they need to check AT LEAST ONE, but preferably more, of the first THREE.):

1. DeltaV
2. MAX Voltage
3. MAX Temperature
4. MAX Time

...otherwise they'd be called DUMB CHARGERS.

Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]

Please provide some LINKs to support this statement.

If you choose an appropriate charging current (i.e. 0.5C) and don't get the AAA cells overly hot (1.0C or higher), I don't see why there would be any problem. 0.14C (100/700) or 0.12C (100/800) isn't so much current over Standard Charge that two hours worth is going to do any damage to the cell.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sadly for me, though, is the fact that I have a difficult time letting incorrect information go by unchallenged (although the folks that I've personally deemed 'gurus' here don't seem to. ).

I enjoy learning new things. And, I enjoy sharing my knowledge and thereby, helping other people. So, if you GOOGLE my User ID, you'll find several FAQs (similar to the one in my Sig Line) on various forums.

READ, LEARN, LIVE LONG and PROSPER... :buddies:

Yes, the C9000 will charge completely every single cell since and every slot have its own channel.

When Tom was talking about multi-cell applications and that the device will stop working when the first cell run out, that device is the one where you use the cells (a flashlight or whatever), not the charger itself (in fact, if I am not wrong, the device will not stop working, but the "good" cells will start to reverse charging the depleted cell).

Many thanks to Vali for your reply. (Jeez, that makes sense!)

Sorry I can't understand the computer system used in this forum and can't find a phone number to call someone to clarify what I should do to spare regular users the torture of "newbies". (It seems that above what I'm writing here in my message is stuff starting with completely extraneous material, for which I apologise but can't rectify.)

I did post another query which I hope someone can answer (probably revealing my ignorance, which I happily acknowledge):

Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]

[quotation above from TakeTheActive on 01-14-2009]

Does this mean that the Maha MH-C9000 will NOT fully charge batteries?!

 

[TakeTheActive]

Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...

Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]

[quotation above from TakeTheActive on 01-14-2009]

Does this mean that the Maha MH-C9000 will NOT fully charge batteries?!

No. Please re-read the portion highlighted in green.

Maha lowered Max Voltage in the current MH-C9000 to prevent overcharging / overheating if cells miss -DeltaV. The effect was that most AA cells now terminated on Max Voltage instead of -DeltaV leaving them slightly undercharged (@~90%, IIRC). Thus, the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely.

A side effect, of concern to some, is the effect of the TopOff Charge on the smaller, lower capacity AAAs.

...With AAA cells, it is not a problem if you charge at higher charge rates. For example, if you have 800 mAh cells, you should charge in the 500 - 800 mA range. If you do this, the charger will terminate on high voltage (1.47 volts) and utilize the top off charge to complete the charging process.

If you charge AAA cells at 200 mA, you could run into some problems with overcharge from the top off charge. Of course this would depend on the capacity of the cells you are charging.

My MH-C9000 runs 24x7 doing BREAK-INs and/or REFRESHes on my stock of non-LSD AA NiMHs so I haven't experienced the AAA overcharging / overheating problem - I use my La Crosse BC-900 or Rayovac PS23-B for recharging them.