bigburly912
Flashlight Enthusiast
Man it's a fun little fireballer too.
Opinions on HDS Long Term
- Thread starter Gyro71
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Man it's a fun little fireballer too.
Lithium466
Enlightened
Late to the party, but I had these worries too one day.
During the Novatac era, Novatac bought out machines and parts from the early HDS EDC Basic/Ultimate series, with the understanding (or agreement, don't know) they'd continue the lifetime warranty on these old series...well we know Novatac ended up bleeding money and not honouring the warranty. Warranty that HDS (Henry) said they will honor when they heard Novatac wasn't doing it anymore (and to this day, still honor, within the limit of what they can do without the parts or machines, since these were sold to Novatac).
So yes, the warranty of a product is only good while the company is up and running..as this was already pointed several times so nothing new lol. My point is...and it depend on individuals, but people tend to change and get fed up with their stuff. I have a friend who took a (pricey) 10 year warranty on his car 3 years ago. Guess what, he's now looking at other cars to replace his, even though 3 years ago he was adamant he'd keep the car 10 years. People change, and the consumer society is pushing you a fast turnover.
But is this true for HDS? I've had HDS lights since 2012 (also I first subscribed on this forum in 2006 but my account was lost at some point, meaning I took a while to jump on the HDS bandwagon), and been using many models, including the old Basic/Ultimate. Did I get fed up at some point and wanted a change? Sure, but I always came back to HDS...making me spiralling in the worries of my favourite brand disappearing one day. I am firmly convinced HDS models from 15 years ago (I was going to say 10, but looks like I aged with the lights too!) still have a point, and I have one right now as emergency light in my hallway, my better half is using a Novatac as night light, I have various Novatac/HDS around...and still using them.
If HDS were to disappear (and I really hope this will happen only after my own disappearance only, cause, you know, I'm selfish too!), I will still have my lights. A few failed during these years, got repaired or replaced, but most didn't. I think of them like tools : along the years I bought mechanic tools, and I'm not easy with them. Many are with me, some broke, got replaced, or I bought replacements from different brands, but the core of what I bought like 20 years ago as a starting kit is still with me. Most carry a lifetime warranty too, but if tomorrow Facom or Stahlwille, Hazet, etc go bankrupt, the warranty is gone. Same is valid for Surefire, in the light of these last months, who knows what can happen, and we've seen it can go fast.
So in the end I hope you'll pardon my rant, but there is no good answer to the question. Buy HDS with confidence, like you would buy any tool carrying a lifetime warranty with confidence. It may fail, but the fact that it comes with a lifetime warranty tells you the manufacturer had faith in the product, or they wouldn't be in business anymore (and yes, to keep with the tool stuff, some fishy brands offer lifetime warranty but try everything to deny it, not the case of HDS)! Like many electronic items, I too noticed there is either an early fail, or a very very late fail.
What will I do when my Novatac will fail (supposing I live long enough to see that)? I'll be sad, as it once carried a lifetime warranty, now gone. But that was many years ago, and I since learned/got used to consider manufacturer warranties with this grain of salt that time passing gives you. But had Novatac still been in business today, wouldn't have I wanted to try something new instead of going through the "hassle" of getting that "old light" repaired? Like a new led, more modern, higher CRI, more lumens (the night is obviously getting darker), new UI, etc ? There is this fine line in a product's life that may make you want to change...and that depend on the product itself, as on the individual buying it.
So I got older and kind of stopped worrying about that. After all, when you reach the point of having 10+ HDS, every one of them that you buy helps easing your worries a bit
During the Novatac era, Novatac bought out machines and parts from the early HDS EDC Basic/Ultimate series, with the understanding (or agreement, don't know) they'd continue the lifetime warranty on these old series...well we know Novatac ended up bleeding money and not honouring the warranty. Warranty that HDS (Henry) said they will honor when they heard Novatac wasn't doing it anymore (and to this day, still honor, within the limit of what they can do without the parts or machines, since these were sold to Novatac).
So yes, the warranty of a product is only good while the company is up and running..as this was already pointed several times so nothing new lol. My point is...and it depend on individuals, but people tend to change and get fed up with their stuff. I have a friend who took a (pricey) 10 year warranty on his car 3 years ago. Guess what, he's now looking at other cars to replace his, even though 3 years ago he was adamant he'd keep the car 10 years. People change, and the consumer society is pushing you a fast turnover.
But is this true for HDS? I've had HDS lights since 2012 (also I first subscribed on this forum in 2006 but my account was lost at some point, meaning I took a while to jump on the HDS bandwagon), and been using many models, including the old Basic/Ultimate. Did I get fed up at some point and wanted a change? Sure, but I always came back to HDS...making me spiralling in the worries of my favourite brand disappearing one day. I am firmly convinced HDS models from 15 years ago (I was going to say 10, but looks like I aged with the lights too!) still have a point, and I have one right now as emergency light in my hallway, my better half is using a Novatac as night light, I have various Novatac/HDS around...and still using them.
If HDS were to disappear (and I really hope this will happen only after my own disappearance only, cause, you know, I'm selfish too!), I will still have my lights. A few failed during these years, got repaired or replaced, but most didn't. I think of them like tools : along the years I bought mechanic tools, and I'm not easy with them. Many are with me, some broke, got replaced, or I bought replacements from different brands, but the core of what I bought like 20 years ago as a starting kit is still with me. Most carry a lifetime warranty too, but if tomorrow Facom or Stahlwille, Hazet, etc go bankrupt, the warranty is gone. Same is valid for Surefire, in the light of these last months, who knows what can happen, and we've seen it can go fast.
So in the end I hope you'll pardon my rant, but there is no good answer to the question. Buy HDS with confidence, like you would buy any tool carrying a lifetime warranty with confidence. It may fail, but the fact that it comes with a lifetime warranty tells you the manufacturer had faith in the product, or they wouldn't be in business anymore (and yes, to keep with the tool stuff, some fishy brands offer lifetime warranty but try everything to deny it, not the case of HDS)! Like many electronic items, I too noticed there is either an early fail, or a very very late fail.
What will I do when my Novatac will fail (supposing I live long enough to see that)? I'll be sad, as it once carried a lifetime warranty, now gone. But that was many years ago, and I since learned/got used to consider manufacturer warranties with this grain of salt that time passing gives you. But had Novatac still been in business today, wouldn't have I wanted to try something new instead of going through the "hassle" of getting that "old light" repaired? Like a new led, more modern, higher CRI, more lumens (the night is obviously getting darker), new UI, etc ? There is this fine line in a product's life that may make you want to change...and that depend on the product itself, as on the individual buying it.
So I got older and kind of stopped worrying about that. After all, when you reach the point of having 10+ HDS, every one of them that you buy helps easing your worries a bit
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WarriorOfLight
Flashlight Enthusiast
Singe Hogo wrote the "official statement" to this topic I write my opinion also.
In my life I saw a lot of companies going into business and also going out of Business. That is also a part of life. And if the time is coming that HDS is going out of Business I am sure my lights will still work. Also the fact with non working caps in the past is no reason for worry. Today Electronic parts are better in quality than parts from 20 years ago. And I am quite sure that in the HDS lights not the cheapest parts are used, since the intention of HDS is a flashlight for life...
But I really hope that Henry and Hogo are enjoying the HDS Company for a lonng long time... ... and we al van participate this joy.
In my life I saw a lot of companies going into business and also going out of Business. That is also a part of life. And if the time is coming that HDS is going out of Business I am sure my lights will still work. Also the fact with non working caps in the past is no reason for worry. Today Electronic parts are better in quality than parts from 20 years ago. And I am quite sure that in the HDS lights not the cheapest parts are used, since the intention of HDS is a flashlight for life...
But I really hope that Henry and Hogo are enjoying the HDS Company for a lonng long time...
... and we al van participate this joy.
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After all, when you reach the point of having 10+ HDS, every one of them that you buy helps easing your worries a bit
Agreed. I think HDS Lights are the best money can buy. Hopefully I'll have 30+ before they close shop, they're the only lights I collect.
bigburly912
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'll write my statement as well since this seems to be a trend: nothing gold can stay
wweiss
Enlightened
HDS products fit this definition. What, if
anything else I own fit it? Books.
bequeath - verb
be·queath | \ bi-ˈkwēth , -ˈkwēt͟h, bē- \
bequeathed; bequeathing; bequeaths
transitive verb
1 : to give or leave by will - used especially of personal property
a ring bequeathed to her by her grandmother
2 : to hand down : TRANSMIT
lessons bequeathed to future generations
anything else I own fit it? Books.
bequeath - verb
be·queath | \ bi-ˈkwēth , -ˈkwēt͟h, bē- \
bequeathed; bequeathing; bequeaths
transitive verb
1 : to give or leave by will - used especially of personal property
a ring bequeathed to her by her grandmother
2 : to hand down : TRANSMIT
lessons bequeathed to future generations
If I learned that HDS was ceasing operations, my worry would not be about warranty work.
Instead- my be concern would be how many lights I could buy before they were all gone!
I've no doubt others here feel the same way, and I would expect stiff competition for any remaining lights!
Instead- my be concern would be how many lights I could buy before they were all gone!
I've no doubt others here feel the same way, and I would expect stiff competition for any remaining lights!
Long term?
That's probably a question the grand kids would ask decades from now.
And regarding SureFire's perma-warranty there are numerous things folks cannot get replaced anymore due to lack of replacement parts. Decades later they're all gone. So if the tail cap of an old A2 Aviator (for example) gives out…… where HDS have stuck with tried and true components over the years so replacement parts should be around for a long long time. So unless the body got tossed into a wood chipper fixing them should be possible long after Henry decides to retire. And that is presuming nobody takes over the business.
That's probably a question the grand kids would ask decades from now.
And regarding SureFire's perma-warranty there are numerous things folks cannot get replaced anymore due to lack of replacement parts. Decades later they're all gone. So if the tail cap of an old A2 Aviator (for example) gives out…… where HDS have stuck with tried and true components over the years so replacement parts should be around for a long long time. So unless the body got tossed into a wood chipper fixing them should be possible long after Henry decides to retire. And that is presuming nobody takes over the business.
Hogokansatsukan
Flashlight Enthusiast
Actually, warranty work won't be a problem at all if Henry kisses off... although I have warned him several times that if he does, I will resurrect him and kill him again I'll be so pissed. Anyway, I have lots of rolls of duct tape and a case of WD-40 so no worries.
the.Mtn.Man
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2008
- Messages
- 2,516
Buy an HDS today. Enjoy it today. Don't worry about tomorrow.
Hogokansatsukan
Flashlight Enthusiast
Henry got a kick out of this thread. I read it to him yesterday as we were working! LOL!
ironhorse
Enlightened
Tell him he's not allowed to die until the "HDS to do list" is all in production.
turbodog
Flashaholic
You both need a common repository for the design drawings of the various lights, sources for all components, machine shops used, ALL codebases, jigs, IP legal docs, and so on. If he kicks, you get to sell the company and divest proceeds according to his wishes. If you kick, then he sells and walks away.
I feel sure there are a few candidates that can continue, want to continue, and w/ please Henry.
I feel sure there are a few candidates that can continue, want to continue, and w/ please Henry.
Hogokansatsukan
Flashlight Enthusiast
aginthelaw
Flashlight Enthusiast
I think the op is concerned he sunk approximately $300 into a light and wants to know the stability of the company surrounding his investment should something go wrong with it. there has been a rare failure in the lights but those are so few you can't locate the thread without searching the entire internet. the end result is they were fixed to the satisfaction of the owner under warranty. i do recall a warranty repair completed with an update at the purchaser's request. l know in the event henry moves to costa rica, there are a few specialists that can repair it for you, but this is one of the few lights that can outlast that eventuality known as life. i've collected handmade knives by Frank Centofante, Phill Hartsfield, and Bo Randall. They've passed away, and all those knives were stolen from me. They now cost thousands of dollars to replace, and there's a hole in my heart that is being filled as i slowly replace them from a myriad of collectors, and sellers. if hds lights weren't made anymore, i'd still pick up one for sale if it caught my eye. in the end it's a tool, but admire it in the present for the work of art that it is
the.Mtn.Man
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2008
- Messages
- 2,516
"Lifetime warranty" has always meant the lifetime of whoever it is that will honor the warranty, and there's no guarantees that a company here today will be here tomorrow, whether it's a small operation like HDS or a huge company like Surefire. And to be frank, if I ever heard of anything happening to Henry, I would be much more concerned about how it impacted his family and friends than I would be with how it impacted the warranty of my flashlight. Let's have a sense of perspective here.
Johnnyh
Enlightened
Agree completely...if HDS were to end, I would hope that it was because Henry found something better to do, not...you know...that thing we all got coming...
The win is to buy more HDS flashlights so if they ever do become unavailable, for whatever reason, you will have a good supply and not have to worry if one fails.
