Pocket carry defense unit about 5" with batteries for CA teacher and traveler

[Samkochel]

Hey, I just joined this site intending to find what I am looking for and just spent a bunch of time using the search button. Nevertheless, here's my first post. I am living in CA, work as a H.S. teacher and travel a fair amount as well. I am looking for a 300 Lumen+ flashlight for travel carry that can double as a blinding device day or night if I am in a tight jam. Something that could fit in a deep pocket, something that uses CR batteries or something I can carry more of for traveling where I can't easily get to power. Also, something that is instant on with full power. Money is not a real issue unless it's over $400. High water resistance would be great as it will get really wet, maybe even submerged briefly, and shock resistance to for travel (caving, climbing, etc... and I suppose hitting someone with the bezel if necessary). I've been to Fenix, Surefire and Streamlight's sites and searched here. Right now I would thin, the top contenders are the Fenix PD32, Fenix UC35, Fenix PD35, Streamlight Protac 2L, however I think people here will know more and be able to bring in new ideas or narrow my choices down. Thanks so much.

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

Welcome to Candle Power Forums. For legal reasons I suggest you not start by posting your desire to purchase a flashlight with the intent to blind or hit people. It may not go over so well with the moderators.

That said, a Fenix PD36 TAC might give you the best runtimes having a 5 amp 21700 lithium ion battery. It's 5.51 inches long and 1 inch in diameter. Has a tactical mode you can use to just access turbo and strobe for instant access to 2000 lumens. If you want a "working" crenelated bezel, you could go with something with a little larger head like the Fenix TK16 v.2., though it won't be very pocketable.

 

[fulee9999]

there was a discussion here ( well actually several times ) on using a flashlight as a defensive or "tactical" tool, and usually the consensus is that you're better off using other solutions:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/defensive-use.480056/

From what you listed SureFire is most reliable hands down, then Streamlight ( also military contractor for the US ) and then Fenix.

 

[ledbetter]

Malkoff Devices MDC TAC. Might as well start with the best, and the easiest to carry. Or Surefire.

 

[bykfixer]

Elzetta Bones would be my reccomendation. On/off high only.

Add a speed clip and a lanyard ring. Clip in pocket lens down with wrist strap drooping from pocket.
Two finger grab in a hurry or strap it to your wrist when not.
Runs off an 18650 or 2 CR123's.

 

[chip100t]

Malkoff Devices MDC TAC. Might as well start with the best, and the easiest to carry. Or Surefire.

Except if you had been fidgeting with your mdc tac previously their is a real chance that if you pulled it out in a pinch expecting it to start on high you may find yourself in low or medium. If it absolutely has to start on high without fail go with surefire, preferably the defender.

 

[Olumin]

Why not go with one of those Armytec V3 Predator/Viking/Dobermann Pro models? Hi only & strobe with head twist. Or even strobe only if you keep the head untwisted. They are potted, double o-ringed, flat regulated & are currently being cleared out at a big discount. Pretty good as far as tactical flashlights go. I got a predator pro myself a little while ago, but mostly 'cause I like the head twist interfaces.

 

[Samkochel]

Except if you had been fidgeting with your mdc tac previously their is a real chance that if you pulled it out in a pinch expecting it to start on high you may find yourself in low or medium. If it absolutely has to start on high without fail go with surefire, preferably the defender.

I looked at the defender and there were some things I really liked a lot about it: Really bright, first click is high and always resets to that after turning it off. Can take CR123A batteries that I can carry when I travel. Can stand on it's end. I do like the strike bezel, but it's a little aggressive for what I want.

I would really like to have a choice somewhere in the looking around a dark room...20-50 lumens along with the other two outputs. Also, it's a tiny bit big and I already mentioned the bezel's aggressiveness, I don't want to turn any TSA heads...or anyone else's. Note if I only wanted a light for self defense, this seems like a GREAT choice.

Any other suggestions?

To the first two posters, I don't plan to use this for self-defense, I want to use it to light up stuff. Also, I want something that I can carry on a plane. I know I mentioned I traveled a lot, but I need something I can take carry-on. Sometimes in some places there are situations that could be so-so, which is why I mentioned self defense. Also, I live in CA so CCW is very hard, pepper spray only does one thing, but flashlights are useful. And the consensuses it's not good for a tactical SD tool is bizarre considering how many experts on SD and martial artist endorse their use...maybe the thought it a gun is better?

 

[fulee9999]

Checkout SureFire EDCL1-T as well. It's 500 lumens on full blast, and has one of the best/simplest UI out there.

many experts on SD and martial artist endorse their use

and a lot of people endorse RAID:ShadowLegends, that doesn't make it any good either... also most self-defense trainers are hacks praying on people's fears, but that's another topic for another forum.

 

[Samkochel]

Checkout SureFire EDCL1-T as well. It's 500 lumens on full blast, and has one of the best/simplest UI out there.



and a lot of people endorse RAID:ShadowLegends, that doesn't make it any good either... also most self-defense trainers are hacks praying on people's fears, but that's another topic for another forum.

" a lot of people endorse RAID:ShadowLegends, that doesn't make it any good either" That's funny! and well said!

"most self-defense trainers are hacks" and that is totally true!

As a gamer and a Blue Belt in BJJ who use to take "Jeet Kune Do" when younger I totally agree with both those statements!

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

To the first two posters, I don't plan to use this for self-defense, I want to use it to light up stuff. Also, I want something that I can carry on a plane. I know I mentioned I traveled a lot, but I need something I can take carry-on. Sometimes in some places there are situations that could be so-so, which is why I mentioned self defense. Also, I live in CA so CCW is very hard, pepper spray only does one thing, but flashlights are useful. And the consensuses it's not good for a tactical SD tool is bizarre considering how many experts on SD and martial artist endorse their use...maybe the thought it a gun is better?

As a former martial arts instructor, let me set some things straight on flashlights for self defense. The only effective use of a small flashlight for self defense is in situational awareness. That means spotting an attacker at a distance and staying away from them until you can get help. Distance is your first line of defense. If they can't reach you, they can't hurt you. Now a true weapon has extension. That means it can give you the advantage of reach. A 5 inch flashlight has no reach (other than light). So to use a flashlight against someone with a knife puts you at a tactical disadvantage. Crenellations on the flashlight don't do squat if you get stabbed in the gut first. You're allowed to use force similar to that of your opponent. If you use the flashlight as a weapon against someone unarmed, you might end up in jail. Using a kick with a leg will be more effective and won't get you in trouble. You can carry a flashlight with crenellations, but I would never depend on that as a weapon. A flashlight against a gun is useless other than temporarily blinding the person from a distance. If you feel unsafe, you need to get proper training in martial arts and/or a concealed carry permit. If you are ever in that type of situation where your life is threatened, you need to have complete awareness of your environment. Know what around you can harm you (tripping hazards, moving cars, etc.) and what can help you (potential weapons like rocks, sticks, bricks, etc.). Don't ever put yourself in an unsafe environment alone thinking you're going to take on a gang with nothing but a flashlight.

 

[fulee9999]

A flashlight against a gun

I mean that's just basically a very very visible target at that point, just dot a few shots around the shiny thingy and you're good

 

[Samkochel]

As a former martial arts instructor, let me set some things straight on flashlights for self defense. The only effective use of a small flashlight for self defense is in situational awareness. That means spotting an attacker at a distance and staying away from them until you can get help. Distance is your first line of defense. If they can't reach you, they can't hurt you. Now a true weapon has extension. That means it can give you the advantage of reach. A 5 inch flashlight has no reach (other than light). So to use a flashlight against someone with a knife puts you at a tactical disadvantage. Crenellations on the flashlight don't do squat if you get stabbed in the gut first. You're allowed to use force similar to that of your opponent. If you use the flashlight as a weapon against someone unarmed, you might end up in jail. Using a kick with a leg will be more effective and won't get you in trouble. You can carry a flashlight with crenellations, but I would never depend on that as a weapon. A flashlight against a gun is useless other than temporarily blinding the person from a distance. If you feel unsafe, you need to get proper training in martial arts and/or a concealed carry permit. If you are ever in that type of situation where your life is threatened, you need to have complete awareness of your environment. Know what around you can harm you (tripping hazards, moving cars, etc.) and what can help you (potential weapons like rocks, sticks, bricks, etc.). Don't ever put yourself in an unsafe environment alone thinking you're going to take on a gang with nothing but a flashlight.

I don't think you read any of the other posts yet...maybe you didn't get just the more recent ones if there was lag. Anyway, you must not like kubotans either than. Also, I wonder what martial art have you done or if you have watched much MMA? Guns and knives vs. lights...lights would certainly lose, I agree with that. I do normally carry a folder, but like I said, I don't think you read the other posts?

 

[Samkochel]

I mean that's just basically a very very visible target at that point, just dot a few shots around the shiny thingy and you're good

You're right, but in CA there are not that many guns, at least where I live and what type of people I try to be around and conversely away from. For home defense, it's guns...all with lights (with temporary on and switched on modes) as every good HD gun should have for target ID...I am NOT shooting my daughter, wife, friend, unarmed intruder, etc...

 

[fulee9999]

You're right, but in CA there are not that many guns, at least where I live and what type of people I try to be around and conversely away from. For home defense, it's guns...all with lights (with temporary on and switched on modes) as every good HD gun should have for target ID...I am NOT shooting my daughter, wife, friend, unarmed intruder, etc...

yeah gotcha, that just really stood out to me, and I imagined a bad guy holding a gun and someone waving a flashlight around like a maniac

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

I don't think you read any of the other posts yet...maybe you didn't get just the more recent ones if there was lag. Anyway, you must not like kubotans either than. Also, I wonder what martial art have you done or if you have watched much MMA? Guns and knives vs. lights...lights would certainly lose, I agree with that. I do normally carry a folder, but like I said, I don't think you read the other posts?

California law bases a lot of weapons on intent. If you have a keychain kubotan and ever only use it as a keychain, you're fine. If you use it for a weapon, it's considered a baton, a deadly weapon, and you can get three years in prison. I'd rather have a knife that has uses as a tool that can be justified in carrying and gives a bit more extension for a self defense weapon. There was a case in California where someone carried around a bike chain and lock but didn't have a bike. When a cop asked him what it was for, he said self defense. He was arrested for possession of a slungshot. If you carry around something for self defense in California, you better have an alternative use you can claim it's for to keep you out of trouble. The state does not acknowledge your right to self defense. By the way, I am a 5th degree black belt and was a Master Instructor in Tang Soo Do with 21 years experience in the art. I know a little something about self defense. Just so you know, MMA sucks. It only works one on one and ends up in a ground fight. The last place you want to be is on the ground. In real life, once you have your opponent on the ground, his three buddies are still standing up kicking you in the head. Remember, when you get in a fight with someone, everybody has a buddy. In real life things aren't fair and you have to adapt to that. In Tang Soo Do, on the other hand, we avoid the ground and specialize in fighting multiple attackers at once. We line them up so we only have to fight one at a time, keeping them in front. You never want to let them surround you, let alone get you on the ground. You see MMA fighters spar one on one. I was used to sparring three on one no problem. For sparring we would get everyone in a large circle and give everyone numbers. People got rotated in and out of the center to spar when their number was called. Sometimes you were sparring several people. At the end, it was usually all the numbers called sparring against me.

As for the light, if a Fenix PD36 TAC doesn't work (too big?), the PD35 V3.0 should do.

 

[DRW]

California law bases a lot of weapons on intent...

You certainly have skills and knowledge, I think you give good advice. The first paragraph of your initial response to this thread was a little out of place. Maybe it's just me.

Training and practice is the key to success no matter how you choose to defend yourself and loved ones.

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

You certainly have skills and knowledge, I think you give good advice. The first paragraph of your initial response to this thread was a little out of place. Maybe it's just me.

Training and practice is the key to success no matter how you choose to defend yourself and loved ones.

I was responding to a previous post about kubotans. If you use one, it's three years in jail. It's better to carry a knife and be able to claim other uses for carrying it than get in trouble for having a kubotan for self defense. Ideally, best to get proper martial arts training (Tang Soo Do, Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Krav Maga, etc.), have a knife, and a pistol with a concealed carry permit. Some parts of California are becoming more lax on giving out CCW permits because of increased crime and knowing the cops can't do anything about it. Just please don't solely rely on a flashlight for self defense. Anyone who gives you advice to just have a flashlight to defend yourself against bad guys with real weapons is going to get you killed.

 

[Monocrom]

I truly wonder how many individuals over the years have gotten badly hurt. Due to having fallen for that ridiculous myth of using a flashlight's beam to temporarily blind someone in a defensive encounter. Is there a level of output that can achieve that goal? Likely yes. Right around 300 lumens, isn't it. Assuming we're talking about actual lumens and not the ridiculous industry standard of measuring output at the emitter before everything else is screwed on. Thus reducing actual output by 1/3. But for the sake of marketing, it's the emitter lumens that get reported by almost all flashlight makers.

Look.... as someone who has taught others actual self-defense techniques and tactics, it's a beam of light. You literally cannot effectively defend yourself against a violent attacker without hurting them. It is literally impossible. Not saying get a firearm. Beam of light in the eyes, useless. Pepperspray in the eyes, usually effective.

I EDC more than one light on a daily basis. They are very useful in helping to I.D. a potential threat hiding in the shadows. That's the best way to use the beam. But if you're relying on it to stop an attacker, you're going to get hurt. Likely, very badly. Harsh reality of life. As far as a flashlight itself used for defensive purposes, get a SureFire E2D or similar sized light with a scalloped bezel and a good pocket-carry clip. Two quick shots to the face (with the bezel, not the beam) then immediately disengage and run to the nearest safe location.

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

I would not let an attacker get close enough to need to use the crenellations of a flashlight like a kubaton. That would be a very, very last desperate thing to resort to. Instead, give them one swift kick between the legs or a front snap kick or side kick to push them away and then run. Once you let them get in that close, you'll be using your knees and elbows to strike, also poking out their eyes and going for the throat. Close quarter combat is extremely fast paced and if you aren't already well trained, you're probably dead by then. If you're tied up fighting one in close and there are other attackers, you're done. You'll get hit from behind while fighting the one. Again, if you have multiple attackers, and you let them get in close range to surround you or get you on the ground, you lose. A kubaton or crenalated flashlight requires you let them get close to use it. Do you see the problem?