Sorry, but I don't believe such claims from various flashlight makers. SureFire has an integrating sphere to measure output out the front. All of the large players can easily afford one. Smaller companies, different story.
Hope you don't mind, but I'll use the example you cited above. That particular company, when they first arrived on CPF, swore that they were an American company with their headquarters right here in America, but lights made overseas. Okay, fair enough. I actually bought one of their original models (the AA version). Liked it a lot actually. Body a tad on the slick side. But I found it to be an overall very good EDC light. Planned on buying more. Never did.
They actually gave the address of their company headquarters here in America. Another member, wish I could recall his name, worked some magic and discovered it was the residencial address of one of their employees. To their credit, the company came clean. But only after getting caught. Didn't really have a good reason why. Still, the company is now respected. Personally, I'm not convinced that they, and other smaller companies measure Out The Front output. Just being honest. Not buying it.
I get that. I should have clarified very specifically that I used that company reference only as an example of one who lists
both numbers, but would
not use them as an example of a company in whom I have high confidence. Also, if I had any valid reason to
lack confidence in any company, I would not buy their products. If they can't be trusted on one thing, then I don't trust them with regard to other things. We have that in common for sure.
But for the sake of marketing, it's the emitter lumens that get reported by almost all flashlight makers.
Back to the point I was originally trying (perhaps poorly) to make. When you say "almost all flashlight manufacturers" I'm not sure which companies you have in mind, but I can tell you who I had in mind when I said
To the best of my knowledge, most of the 'better' manufacturers test and document output to PLATO/ANSI FL1 standards (and that is not limited to PLATO member companies), and test and rate their lumen output ratings OTF (out the front), not bare emitter.
That list of 'better' manufacturers includes most of the more highly-respected manufacturers regularly discussed on this forum historically, and they're not necessarily either larger companies or PLATO members either. These publish their specs / ratings as being in compliance with FL1 standards, I have good reason to be confident in most of them personally where their ratings are concerned, and have no reason to lack confidence in the others' ratings based on everything I've heard from others. To single out a few of them specifically, I can do that: The list includes (in no particular order) names like Streamlight, Fenix, Maglite, Elzetta, Malkoff, Nitecore, ASP, Surefire, etc. If I found reason to believe any of them were dishonest / misleading on any of their claims, I'd not buy another thing from them, but at this time, I 'trust' that most of their ratings are legit.
Those are the kind of companies who figure prominently on my "most of the better manufacturers" list, along with a number of the more 'mass market' brands. More? Most likely any company on this list deserves 'benefit of the doubt' regarding honesty in ratings advertising, until otherwise proven unworthy:
www.plato-usa.org
In short, I have to have some reason for having confidence in a company to have confidence in their claims, then I have to like what they're claiming, then I may purchase their products. All that is earned with me, not granted on casual hear-say or group think. We all have to decide what we believe and don't believe, and I have no interest in trying to convince anyone to share my personal judgements. I could provide a list of several companies who I lack confidence in, some with very good and demonstrable reason, but I'm not gonna go there.
Sorry my 'example' became an unnecessary and irrelevant distraction from the point I was trying to make. I didn't need to reference a specific company, but now I've referenced several anyway
I think some people wanted to discuss personal defense strategies / equipment, which I have no interest in discussing, but 'as you were' to them.
EDIT: I was just looking around the Malkoff site (not that I have any budget left right now), and noted that I don't actually see references to FL1 specifically regarding output ratings, but I do see the phrase "Measured Out the Front Lumens" used, so I guess for purposes of this discussion (LED vs OTF lumens), that will suffice. Although I didn't scour the whole site, I was apparently incorrect when I stated that they reference FL1 however, so I'll correct that detail. I wish they did, but 'to each their own'. I do imagine they're trustworthy and honest with the info that they do present though, even if it's not as complete as I'd like to see.