Surefire UM2 Ultra

[Lumen83]

Is the UM-2 the end of the line for the handheld SF selector ring light? Will an emitter update or a military buy resurrect it?

Looking at the SureFire 2018 catalog, the only selector ring light I see is the behemoth UDR Dominator which takes a dozen CR123A's.

I really hope it is not the end of the line for selector ring surefires. I own many U2s and Kromas. I love selector ring lights for EDC lights. Because on an every day basis the tasks change and range from performing some up close work to scoping out that noise in the back yard. So, multiple brightness levels via a selector ring really make a lot of sense to me for an EDC light. And, that is the UI that I prefer to cycling through modes with a button of some sort. But, for me I don't need a selector ring for a non EDC light. Lights I use to really light up something at a distance, that I either keep in the truck or in a drawer in the kitchen, don't need a selector ring in my opinion. UI is less important to me for lights like that vs. EDC lights.

So ultimately I passed on the UM2 because even though I love the selector ring UI, I found it too big for EDC. So, the fact that it had a selector ring suddenly became less appealing to me. I wouldn't value a selector ring in a non-EDC type of light. And, then the thought was maybe it would make a really neat truck or kitchen drawer type light. But, ultimately it wasn't as bright as a lot of other lights that are more geared toward that type of usage. So, really it just turned into a light that really couldn't find its niche. I think some other consumers probably felt that way too. I would love to see surefire make a selector ring light with a modern LED that is smaller than the original U2. But, I think that is wishful thinking. So, modded U2s are the best alternative for me at this point.

 

[Daniel_sk]

I have similar thoughts after owning (and selling) the UM2. Here is my view:
- while the selector ring sounds appealing at first, it has its drawbacks. A lot of times I want to switch from a lower output to maximum to check something in further distance, this means I have to (usually) use two hands to dial to a higher level and then return back. Maybe if it had a separate turbo button?
- There is not much difference between those 6 levels - I think 4 or 5 would be fine.
- it's too big for EDC, it's also 10% heavier, longer and bulkier than the original U2
- the lowest mode isn't very efficient, you get 5 lumens for 35 hours on 2x CR123A.
- the highest setting should be around 1000-1200 lumens
- it doesn't work on the highest setting with 16650

But the price was great after all those discounts.

 

[270winchester]

Yes, that is one of the modded U2s that I have. And, that one is my favorite. Yes, its the original reflector and not an optic. That is also something that I prefer. So, again I feel that modded U2 is a better alternative for me that the UM2 for all of the reasons I've listed. You asked for an alternative, and I am submitting that as mine. Is that the best/most common route for the general consumer to go down? Probably not. But that is my alternative, as you asked. I am not the DIYer, and nor did I ever claim to be. And, nor do I feel like that changes whether or not the my preferred alternative satisfies your question, and I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion.

Can you point us to an independent review of a light similar to the one you had Nitroz modify for you? Since now you acknowledge that it does not use an optic, I find it interesting to see how the output and beam compares to the UM2.

How much was the total price once you add the cost of the a good condition used U2 plus the cost of modification?

Again, surefire made a light that was demonstrably out of touch with the demand of the general consumer. I can't help you or surefire there. But, I am one those uninterested consumers. My alternative was to have original U2s modded to outperform the UM2s in the categories that were important to me. I've discussed those in detail, and don't feel the need to add any more.

With that said, I don't see any value in continuing this discussion.

We only have your words to go on since most of us don't have a U2 laying around to be sent and modified by an expert. Must be nice to have a disposable U2 laying around like that, yet the UM2 is too expensive. Hm....

Your insistence that the UM2 is too big is strange considering the photo shows the size difference is not significant. But at the end of the day Surefire is unlikely to go further with smaller selector ring lights and we now can all see why: a new product will need to be the same price as a used one and they must deliver more lumens and better beam in a package smaller than the used one, says the critic who won't buy one anyway.

 

[the0dore3524]

I agree with Lumens83 and Daniel_sk after having owned and then sold my UM2. Simply too big to EDC and too little power. I have a U2 as well and that's already pushing the limits on size. The pocket clip on the UM2 was absurd...I can't see anyone actually using it unless they wear cargo pants on a daily basis. The much smaller head of the U2 - not so much the actual size - was what made it feasible to even carry with the pocket clip. I'm sure a modified U2 like Lumens83 described would meet my needs much better than the UM2. The UM2 was a niche light that couldn't find its niche for me. Having said that, it was going for a great price while it lasted. If you have a use for it, then by all means go for it!

 

[archimedes]

....
Your insistence that the UM2 is too big is strange considering the photo shows the size difference is not significant. But at the end of the day Surefire is unlikely to go further with smaller selector ring lights and we now can all see why: a new product will need to be the same price as a used one and they must deliver more lumens and better beam in a package smaller than the used one, says the critic who won't buy one anyway.

Well, most tech is deflationary ... delivering more and better for less and less, whether you look at computers, electronics, communication, LEDs, or the like.

 

[bykfixer]

While we debate the merits of why SureFire does this or that the night vision optics have made military use of a flashlight about as practical as a bunch of shoulder to shoulder soldiers firing across a field at another bunch of shoulder to shoulder soldiers.

And much of SureFire's previous ideas were based on pre-night vision optics tactical uses.

Much of the debate here is like arguing whether the flint lock or musket was better in the days of the gatling gun.

And with 1 cell lights easily making 300+ lumens it's also like debating whether 12"barreled revolvers are better than 9" barrels.

The market for SureFire (and other tactical brand) flashlights has changed forever. And with all the other overseas makers flooding the market(s) (with some being pretty good) the SureFire market has shrunk considerably. That's not to say it has become tiny like it was back in 1995, but it definitely aint what it used to be.

The world has gotten smaller, what with dozens of city-sized boats crossing the ocean at 27 knots on a given day, combined with heaven knows how many jumbo jets loaded with mass produced items.

If there ever is another U2 derivative it will likely be a vampire type of light. Possibly with an option of an actual flashlight as one of the 'clicks'.

 

[Lumen83]

Can you point us to an independent review of a light similar to the one you had Nitroz modify for you?

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?358753-Surefire-U2-Ultra-XP-G2-mod/page4

This is a thread from Nitroz on modding a U2 with a similar emitter. I believe one of my U2s now has this emitter as well. I am not sure if you will find beam shots, but it is a good place to start for more info. If you are truly interested, I will gladly take pictures and send them to you. But, I am terrible at reviews, nor do I have the desire to write one up.

Since now you acknowledge that it does not use an optic, I find it interesting to see how the output and beam compares to the UM2.

I never stated that is does use an optic. Like I said earlier, I mistook your question and assumed you were asking which emitter it uses, and that is how I responded. The beam of this particular U2 seems to have a larger hot spot and much more spill than the UM2, from what I can see. It also has a warmer tint than the UM2, which is another benefit of having an original U2 modded vs. purchasing the UM2. You can select the tint you prefer. Some of us find that important and do not like the UM2 or original U2 tint.

How much was the total price once you add the cost of the a good condition used U2 plus the cost of modification?

$90.00 to $110.00 for the ones I have done so far.

Must be nice to have a disposable U2 laying around like that, yet the UM2 is too expensive. Hm....

It is. I was able to buy a few of them for $45.00 apiece. Those I left un-modded and have them stashed in the ATV, Snowmobile, truck, etc. I don't feel bad having a $45.00 light sit mostly unused and outside all year long. Those original U2s at that price point are great for that type of application. So, the answer is yes the UM2 is too expensive regardless of the fact that I have "disposable" U2s laying around. The fact is, they serve a specific purpose at a specific price point that I am willing to spend on that purpose. A UM2 exceeds the price point for that purpose.

Your insistence that the UM2 is too big is strange considering the photo shows the size difference is not significant.

You say its not signifficant, and I say it is. We have different requirements and different taste. This isn't something that is debatable. But, I would like to submit that I am not alone in thinking it is too big. There are atleast two active posters in this thread who recently have agreed that it is too big. So, again I think that had a significant impact on the consumer's decision to pass on this light.

But at the end of the day Surefire is unlikely to go further with smaller selector ring lights and we now can all see why: a new product will need to be the same price as a used one and they must deliver more lumens and better beam in a package smaller than the used one, says the critic who won't buy one anyway.

Again, I did not buy one because it didn't fit my requirements for an EDC light, a truck light, a kitchen draw light, an ATV light, or for any other purpose. For all of those applications, I found better options. And, so did all of the consumers who chose not to buy this light. Do we really need to keep beating this dead horse?

 

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

- while the selector ring sounds appealing at first, it has its drawbacks. A lot of times I want to switch from a lower output to maximum to check something in further distance, this means I have to (usually) use two hands to dial to a higher level and then return back. Maybe if it had a separate turbo button?

The UDR and the discontinued UB3T and UBR have this feature with on the MaxBlast™ tailcap. You press in the tailcap button and you always get full power with the selector ring set to a lower level of output. The UBR has some four-function feature in the tailcap as well, I don't think that idea went over too well.

- There is not much difference between those 6 levels - I think 4 or 5 would be fine.

After carrying PK's single cell PK-PR1 for over a year, I think that three levels are practical for my use. I've got a couple of the recent SureFire handheld lights and they are nice, small and powerful. But the two settings are sometimes too bright and too dim. I could use a long lasting middle level for a lot of nighttime tasks. And still have that afterburner high setting to check out something in the shadows.

- the lowest mode isn't very efficient, you get 5 lumens for 35 hours on 2x CR123A.

Take a look at the UDR Dominator. With a dozen CR123A's, you only get 14 lumens for 23 hours. Which points out that the overhead of the electronics on the selector ring lights has not allowed the increased efficacy of the new emitters to deliver a significant increase in battery life at the low end.

For comparison, the new EDCL2-T has double the advertised output of the UM2 at 1200 lumens and allegedly gives 5 lumens for 60 hours on two batteries. And has a street price about the same as the UM2 at the closeout price.

The difference between 35 hours and 60 hours at 5 lumens isn't a deal breaker for me unless I'm in one of Henry's caves without extra batteries. But the UM2 is just a little too large for me to carry.

So, my UM2 is on my desk (which is starting to look a lot like PK's old desk at SureFire ) and my EDCL2-T is in my pocket.

And, all this talk about modding U2's has got me thinking that I still have a couple new in the box in a drawer somewhere downstairs. There was a brief flood of brand new U2's years ago at fire sale prices on eBay when some major sporting goods dealer went out of business. I need to go looking...

As far as modding the UM2, I think I'll let someone who knows what they are doing try it first. Kinda like my colleague who was asked by the air traffic controller if he wanted to be the first plane to land on a newly cleaned and treated icy runway. He said, "no ma'am, we'd like to be the second plane to land." :thumbsup:

 

[mikespike2]

Can't believe I completely missed out on buying one of these given the limited production run. I see Arms Unlimited is now out of stock.

I have the last U2, and would have liked to add one of these to the collection. My only complaint with the U2 is the max lumens, and it looks like this would address that.

The UB3T is also discontinued? Wow, a lot has happened lately. Glad I got one before they were gone.

Edit: And the Peacekeeper is also gone? Yikes. I really like this light due to the 18650 compatibility, currently my most used light. Guess I should try and not lose it given it would be hard to replace.

 

[Greenbean]

I have the last U2, and would have liked to add one of these to the collection. My only complaint with the U2 is the max lumens, and it looks like this would address that.

The UB3T is also discontinued? Wow, a lot has happened lately. Glad I got one before they were gone.

Edit: And the Peacekeeper is also gone? Yikes. I really like this light due to the 18650 compatibility, currently my most used light. Guess I should try and not lose it given it would be hard to replace.

If you must have them from time to time they hit eBay, lol...

Honestly I have a custom body from FM for my two stage Fury and its a great 18650 light vs a Peacemaker. However the Peacemaker has the "cooler" name!

I must say the older U2 has a smoother ring, the new one has stronger detents and is a tad heavier and larger in the front.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Back in February of this year, I placed an order for one more UM2. Their quantity on their website was in the single digits. When it showed up, the receipt said something like, "You got the last one!" My daughter's birthday is today, so she was thrilled/surprised to get her own. She'd been borrowing mine from time to time. Her s/n is: A00244 while mine is A00601. Yay, UM2s in stereo in this house!

 

[Nimitz68]

Back in February of this year, I placed an order for one more UM2. Their quantity on their website was in the single digits. When it showed up, the receipt said something like, "You got the last one!" My daughter's birthday is today, so she was thrilled/surprised to get her own. She'd been borrowing mine from time to time. Her s/n is: A00244 while mine is A00601. Yay, UM2s in stereo in this house!

Very nice! Congratulations on getting the last UM2.

 

[the0dore3524]

Back in February of this year, I placed an order for one more UM2. Their quantity on their website was in the single digits. When it showed up, the receipt said something like, "You got the last one!" My daughter's birthday is today, so she was thrilled/surprised to get her own. She'd been borrowing mine from time to time. Her s/n is: A00244 while mine is A00601. Yay, UM2s in stereo in this house!

That's awesome! I wish my parents gave me expensive stuff like that when I was a kid lol. I got a Streamlight 4AA when I was like 8. When I was 9, I think I asked for a G2 Nitrolon. When I was about 12 or so, it was a P2X Fury. Never got to have any of the upper-tier SF lights until I started working.

 

[Modernflame]

...When I was about 12 or so, it was a P2X Fury...

Mercy! I'm a fossil.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Well, she had turned 14 and is a good student; As and Bs with twice as many As.

And I'm surprised that my UM2 has been my main nightstand light since I got it last November. I mostly use mine on the lowest 2 settings and rarely on the 600; so I'm still on the original set of cells. Prior to the UM2, my nightstand light was a P1R dual mode Peacekeeper.

 

[the0dore3524]

Well, she had turned 14 and is a good student; As and Bs with twice as many As.

And I'm surprised that my UM2 has been my main nightstand light since I got it last November. I mostly use mine on the lowest 2 settings and rarely on the 600; so I'm still on the original set of cells. Prior to the UM2, my nightstand light was a P1R dual mode Peacekeeper.

Very nice. I currently have almost ten lights on my nightstand, it's impossible to choose one! I've had both the P1R and UM2. I liked the build of the P1R more, but the UM2 is a lot more flexible. I recall having to cup my hand and click quickly with the P1R b/c it always came on mad blast. I sure do miss both those lights even though they saw very little use in my hands.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Well, I finally know what this light acts like when it's low on primary cell voltage. It strobes on low. I finally have to replace the original set of CR123s. Most of its use has been on the lowest 2 settings with maybe a few minutes total on high. So about 7 months of life w/ my current usage pattern.

I shall now rotate it off my nightstand into the curio; my P1R has been quite jealous...

 

[JBA]

Back in February of this year, I placed an order for one more UM2. Their quantity on their website was in the single digits. When it showed up, the receipt said something like, "You got the last one!" My daughter's birthday is today, so she was thrilled/surprised to get her own. She'd been borrowing mine from time to time. Her s/n is: A00244 while mine is A00601. Yay, UM2s in stereo in this house!

Wow! That is really cool!!

 

[PseudoFed]

Ha. Had to come back to this thread. Thought I owned 3, but while cleaning out a drawer jammed full of boxed lights and knives I found a 4th. I own #159, #202, #402, and #620. The last one has been my EDC for over a year when wearing carpenter shorts/jeans, or 5.11 style pants, or beefier cargo shorts/pants. In fact, pretty much all the time except when needing to wear dress slacks and pocket carry. Absolutely no issues with this light, which I use every day. Selector ring still good. It's been dropped a few times and knocked into dishwater. Got them at various times and prices from AU (but don't think I lucked into the $150). Got one hat too. Great light!

 

[Mags]

Ha. Had to come back to this thread. Thought I owned 3, but while cleaning out a drawer jammed full of boxed lights and knives I found a 4th. I own #159, #202, #402, and #620. The last one has been my EDC for over a year when wearing carpenter shorts/jeans, or 5.11 style pants, or beefier cargo shorts/pants. In fact, pretty much all the time except when needing to wear dress slacks and pocket carry. Absolutely no issues with this light, which I use every day. Selector ring still good. It's been dropped a few times and knocked into dishwater. Got them at various times and prices from AU (but don't think I lucked into the $150). Got one hat too. Great light!

If youre in the mood to part with one, pm me

Are these sold out everywhere now?