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Flashlight Enthusiast
this is a significant point, during certain times, you don't want a visible light but the min because it draws unwanted attention.
Survival LED Flashlight Testing.
- Thread starter Woods Walker
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Flashlight Enthusiast
what is that headband and where do you get it?
I have a quack, I think they would play well together.
especially in emergencies.
I have a quack, I think they would play well together.
especially in emergencies.
Woods Walker
The Wood is cut, The Bacon is cooked, Now it’s tim
That's a Nitecore headband. It's really good but don't know if they still sell it. I think E&E or stealth camping (legal stealth but yea just don't visitors) are different situations than survival. With survival I want to be back home so attention is a good thing IMHO. This is why we often pack whistles and signal mirrors in PSKs.
Nitecore sells a generic headband that has loops for mounting flashlights on the left/right side, as well along the center piece. Google "Nitecore headband" and you'll find it - I saw a no-name generic copy on Amazon as well. You can find similar products by Sunwayman and a few others.
wjv
Enlightened
- Joined
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Woods Walker
The Wood is cut, The Bacon is cooked, Now it’s tim
And so the testing goes on. Two lights. One flood the other throw both neutral white and around the same output. The throw Predator is brighter I think but not by much. We are heading out from camp.
My plan was to cross the river however the snow and ice on either bank made that too risky just to test out a survival light theory. One slip and a smack on the head could end badly. Best to keep my quota of luck for when really needed. But we can compare both within this environment and look for a crossing point just for comparison.
Armytek Predator standard XP-G2 NW.
Throws good but kinda have tunnel vision. Not as bad as the photos might show but still. Snow and ice along the bank.
It does penetrate water well which might come into play during a crossing. I have crossed brooks and small rivers at night when fly fishing to get back late. It isn't recommenced IMHO but just saying what happened.
Good at spotting ice in the middle etc. Another danger I decided to pass up. I did stoke the stove before heading out just in case I slipped monkeying around the river. Had a few bad experiences with snow/ice and rivers so a bit shy around that combo.
Up next. A light with considerably more flood.
Armytek Prime A1 with C2 body.
A big difference. I don't have much unobstructed range for throw anyways and the flood filled up the space much nicer.
Still had some good water penetration but got so see a wider area of the river bank.
The flood at near range.
Medium.
Firefly.
Direct comparison.
Throw.
Flood.
Pointing at (to the best of my ability sinking into the snow with cold hands) the same tree on the opposite bank for comparison. The Throw made a smaller area brighter but the flood hit a wider area bright enough. This kinda goes without saying.
The shelter. It's about 90 degrees inside and I was looking forward to getting back for some coffee.
Flood.
Throw.
I did see the shelter sooner with the throw when walking back but was also following my foot prints so knew the exact direction to point the lights. So far I am liking flooder beams over a narrow throw but the optic on the Prime A1 does allow for some throw as it's a bit of a mix. The older Predator has a throw reflector with a smaller (at one time considered bigger) LED.
To be continued for future updates.
My plan was to cross the river however the snow and ice on either bank made that too risky just to test out a survival light theory. One slip and a smack on the head could end badly. Best to keep my quota of luck for when really needed. But we can compare both within this environment and look for a crossing point just for comparison.
Armytek Predator standard XP-G2 NW.
Throws good but kinda have tunnel vision. Not as bad as the photos might show but still. Snow and ice along the bank.
It does penetrate water well which might come into play during a crossing. I have crossed brooks and small rivers at night when fly fishing to get back late. It isn't recommenced IMHO but just saying what happened.
Good at spotting ice in the middle etc. Another danger I decided to pass up. I did stoke the stove before heading out just in case I slipped monkeying around the river. Had a few bad experiences with snow/ice and rivers so a bit shy around that combo.
Up next. A light with considerably more flood.
Armytek Prime A1 with C2 body.
A big difference. I don't have much unobstructed range for throw anyways and the flood filled up the space much nicer.
Still had some good water penetration but got so see a wider area of the river bank.
The flood at near range.
Medium.
Firefly.
Direct comparison.
Throw.
Flood.
Pointing at (to the best of my ability sinking into the snow with cold hands) the same tree on the opposite bank for comparison. The Throw made a smaller area brighter but the flood hit a wider area bright enough. This kinda goes without saying.
The shelter. It's about 90 degrees inside and I was looking forward to getting back for some coffee.
Flood.
Throw.
I did see the shelter sooner with the throw when walking back but was also following my foot prints so knew the exact direction to point the lights. So far I am liking flooder beams over a narrow throw but the optic on the Prime A1 does allow for some throw as it's a bit of a mix. The older Predator has a throw reflector with a smaller (at one time considered bigger) LED.
To be continued for future updates.
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Offgridled
Flashlight Enthusiast
Great comparison Walker. The flood does appear to be better for finding the tent.
BloodLust
Enlightened
Oh man. Great comparison. Thanks! Been meaning to pick up an Armytek as well. Just couldn't decide which one yet.
thermal guy
Flashaholic
A Fenix fd41 would cover all your needs. I to do a lot of trail hikes and been thinking that would be the best trail light out there right now. Great picture there.
Woods Walker
The Wood is cut, The Bacon is cooked, Now it’s tim
The omnivore contingency.
For this test both headlamp and flashlight can use 1XAA or 1XCR123. The flashlight can use 1XAA, 2XAA, 1XCR123, 1XAAA, 2XAAA. When night running mechanical injury is a risk. Mud and rocks under foot can put the hurt on. Can't avoid what yea can't see. For this test I took the 1XAA from the headlamp and put it inside the G3/M31L which had 1XCR123 then ran 6 miles over the rocky muddy ground through the hills using just the 1XAA powered flashlight. Also my camera used to take these photos runs off 2XAA. If I needed the light to get out of the woods or during an ER guess who is going hungry?
G3 now setup with M31L and spacers/covers to become a low voltage omnivore with a max of 3.3 volts.
The light is double tied to the pack. If going though dense brush I would toss it inside so not to get hung up. The lanyard has breakaways just in case. The lanyard isn't really to protect the light from drop damage. It's a low mass Surefire G3 running a single AA with a Mcclicky switch. The bezel is Al and window acrylic. Moved the M91W to a high voltage omnivore setup. This now has a M31L which is also potted and just about bomb proof aka one mode and little to go wrong. Even have a back up twisty tail cap in the omnivore kit. The lanyard is so I don't drop the light then have it turn off never to be seen again. It will be just fine for whoever finds it during the day. Bummer that might not be me so I use the lanyard.
Running off 1XCR123 but what if the battery was dead and the headlamp stopped working. Sure I should pack enough batteries but sometimes life gets in the way. I got over 5-miles to go.....
1XAA NiMH and AA spacer.
It might rattle a bit and could get a sleeve but functions flawlessly.
Things yea don't want to blunder into right across my path.
This is annoying. A field of thorn bushes on both sides and the ground is torn up by ATVs (illegal here). Again the mud could be a problem without light.
Things like the rock under foot looking to roll away are problems during the day, never mind night. Again no light would be problematic.
All of these are good reasons not to run or travel at night during an ER but I am not setup for an overnight camp. Sure I could pitch the poncho, insulate the ground, start a fire and put on my fleece or..... just keep on with the nightly jog.
For this test both headlamp and flashlight can use 1XAA or 1XCR123. The flashlight can use 1XAA, 2XAA, 1XCR123, 1XAAA, 2XAAA. When night running mechanical injury is a risk. Mud and rocks under foot can put the hurt on. Can't avoid what yea can't see. For this test I took the 1XAA from the headlamp and put it inside the G3/M31L which had 1XCR123 then ran 6 miles over the rocky muddy ground through the hills using just the 1XAA powered flashlight. Also my camera used to take these photos runs off 2XAA. If I needed the light to get out of the woods or during an ER guess who is going hungry?
G3 now setup with M31L and spacers/covers to become a low voltage omnivore with a max of 3.3 volts.
The light is double tied to the pack. If going though dense brush I would toss it inside so not to get hung up. The lanyard has breakaways just in case. The lanyard isn't really to protect the light from drop damage. It's a low mass Surefire G3 running a single AA with a Mcclicky switch. The bezel is Al and window acrylic. Moved the M91W to a high voltage omnivore setup. This now has a M31L which is also potted and just about bomb proof aka one mode and little to go wrong. Even have a back up twisty tail cap in the omnivore kit. The lanyard is so I don't drop the light then have it turn off never to be seen again. It will be just fine for whoever finds it during the day. Bummer that might not be me so I use the lanyard.
Running off 1XCR123 but what if the battery was dead and the headlamp stopped working. Sure I should pack enough batteries but sometimes life gets in the way. I got over 5-miles to go.....
1XAA NiMH and AA spacer.
It might rattle a bit and could get a sleeve but functions flawlessly.
Things yea don't want to blunder into right across my path.
This is annoying. A field of thorn bushes on both sides and the ground is torn up by ATVs (illegal here). Again the mud could be a problem without light.
Things like the rock under foot looking to roll away are problems during the day, never mind night. Again no light would be problematic.
All of these are good reasons not to run or travel at night during an ER but I am not setup for an overnight camp. Sure I could pitch the poncho, insulate the ground, start a fire and put on my fleece or..... just keep on with the nightly jog.
cp2315
Enlightened
Always a pleasure to read about your night runs Woods. Thanks!
Woods Walker
The Wood is cut, The Bacon is cooked, Now it’s tim
Ok the field testing of the omnivore goes in with 1XAA. As many others were recovering from Easter Holiday candy and gorging I was running the dirt roads of the town tonight. Unless my memory is shot (always a possibility) the 2500 mAh Duraloop Pro wasn't charged from the last 6.8 mile of trail run not too long ago. So it appears 10 miles of night travel at a speed of around 4 mpr isn't a problem for 1XAA. This Photo didn't come out good but looks like there is still life in the battery.
The max I ever did during one night was around 22 miles of trail but was getting bleary eyed for lack of better words around 2:30 am. 5 miles is hardly a problem and not overly stressful and 10 is ok though more stressful. To be honest I really wouldn't want to push far distances on foot in an ER situation at night. That said having the gear to do so increases options.
The max I ever did during one night was around 22 miles of trail but was getting bleary eyed for lack of better words around 2:30 am. 5 miles is hardly a problem and not overly stressful and 10 is ok though more stressful. To be honest I really wouldn't want to push far distances on foot in an ER situation at night. That said having the gear to do so increases options.
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Great thread, WW! I just got back from a late night hike/woods trip to a local state park. Last couple trips out I took a couple new-to-me lights including a Surefire G2 Nitrolon host with an M61LL and an MD2 Hi/Low. The M61LL is truly a great engine! Obviously the M61 is more potent but they're surprisingly close to the naked eye, and of course the LL lasts five times as long. I was fortunate enough to snag an M61NLL last week so hopefully it will be here tomorrow. The MD2 is an awesome light- I wish I hadn't waited so long to try one! The Hi/Low ring is superb giving a very useful Low output. The only thing I don't much like is the McClicky tailcap; I will very soon replace it with a Surefire momentary/twisty. I am almost certainly in the minority but I think it's almost impossible to improve on the old-school switch from the venerable 6P. It's also considerably shorter in OAL. I will likely also swap in an M61N as soon as I figure out how to remove and reinstall the Hi/Low ring.
Generally when I'm doing some woods bumming I'll have at least two lights. Tonight without really intending to I had five! I grabbed my HPG Kit Bag to carry my USPf9 and didn't notice til I was out there that I had a MicroStream in the pocket. The HK also wears a WML (that's two lights right there). I had my Elzetta Alpha in the pocket of my fleece already and had grabbed the aforementioned duo to do some testing.
I think light is very useful and important in the wilderness, but when it comes down to brass tacks I don't think it's absolutely essential as survival gear. Sure, it is if you're spelunking! But most of the time it's not going to be the difference between life and death. Still, I think it adds an element of safety and expands ones options so I always have lights along.
Generally when I'm doing some woods bumming I'll have at least two lights. Tonight without really intending to I had five! I grabbed my HPG Kit Bag to carry my USPf9 and didn't notice til I was out there that I had a MicroStream in the pocket. The HK also wears a WML (that's two lights right there). I had my Elzetta Alpha in the pocket of my fleece already and had grabbed the aforementioned duo to do some testing.
I think light is very useful and important in the wilderness, but when it comes down to brass tacks I don't think it's absolutely essential as survival gear. Sure, it is if you're spelunking! But most of the time it's not going to be the difference between life and death. Still, I think it adds an element of safety and expands ones options so I always have lights along.
Woods Walker
The Wood is cut, The Bacon is cooked, Now it’s tim
Yup earlier in this thread I showed leatherman pliers which were used just that way.
edit. I hate mobile posting.......the phone seems to post whatever it wants.
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Thanks all, I'll give it a shot. My M61NLL did indeed show up today! I'm excited for sundown to see what it can do.
Apropos of nothing I wish there was a detent for the high and low resistor settings. My sole complaint about the MD2 is that the head can loosen or tighten enough in my pocket to change the setting.
Apropos of nothing I wish there was a detent for the high and low resistor settings. My sole complaint about the MD2 is that the head can loosen or tighten enough in my pocket to change the setting.
Woods Walker
The Wood is cut, The Bacon is cooked, Now it’s tim
The best survival gear is the one which prevents the "brass tacks" in the first place IMHO. A good light might make the difference between a serious mechanical injury during an otherwise normal day hike running late. Just like not getting lost in the first place Trumps everything done once lost no matter how much skill and determination is employed. I think the old school SF twisty was the most reliable system ever. I pack a cheap clone in my omnivore supplies as it works with everything and is redundant aka extra. Plus the plastic is less likely to damage the spacers IMO.Great thread, WW! I just got back from a late night hike/woods trip to a local state park. Last couple trips out I took a couple new-to-me lights including a Surefire G2 Nitrolon host with an M61LL and an MD2 Hi/Low. The M61LL is truly a great engine! Obviously the M61 is more potent but they're surprisingly close to the naked eye, and of course the LL lasts five times as long. I was fortunate enough to snag an M61NLL last week so hopefully it will be here tomorrow. The MD2 is an awesome light- I wish I hadn't waited so long to try one! The Hi/Low ring is superb giving a very useful Low output. The only thing I don't much like is the McClicky tailcap; I will very soon replace it with a Surefire momentary/twisty. I am almost certainly in the minority but I think it's almost impossible to improve on the old-school switch from the venerable 6P. It's also considerably shorter in OAL. I will likely also swap in an M61N as soon as I figure out how to remove and reinstall the Hi/Low ring.
Generally when I'm doing some woods bumming I'll have at least two lights. Tonight without really intending to I had five! I grabbed my HPG Kit Bag to carry my USPf9 and didn't notice til I was out there that I had a MicroStream in the pocket. The HK also wears a WML (that's two lights right there). I had my Elzetta Alpha in the pocket of my fleece already and had grabbed the aforementioned duo to do some testing.
I think light is very useful and important in the wilderness, but when it comes down to brass tacks I don't think it's absolutely essential as survival gear. Sure, it is if you're spelunking! But most of the time it's not going to be the difference between life and death. Still, I think it adds an element of safety and expands ones options so I always have lights along.
I doubt we truly disagree. Having light can prevent a situation from going downhill. Probably I'm being pedantic but to me I categorize "survival gear" in it's own niche, and by that I mean true survival gear. Lots of things (hopefully!) prevent a bad situation and/or mitigate it. The biggest of them is to leave a plan with someone responsible so somebody knows where you plan to be and when you plan to be back. Having a map, doing research and knowing the area, giving yourself time (and avoiding 'gethomeistis' which pushes you to reckless heights when you should just S.T.O.P.), etc. Again, I agree that proper preparation can prevent many bad situations, and having the right gear can turn a potential survival situation into merely an unplanned camping trip.
But once you're in a bad spot a light isn't among the most useful things to have. Obviously it doesn't hurt but if you're in a situation where there's no chance of avoiding a night or two out then shelter is a much bigger deal. You need to control your core temp which requires at least one of three things (and probably several)- shelter, fire and water. I know that you know this very well and are a pretty experienced woodsman, I just type it out so everyone knows what I mean. Granted, it's not hard to spin a scenario when having a good light would prevent you from getting lost- that's a given. A good light is always on me, even if I'm not planning to be out after dark.
I don't want to hijack this thread but survival skills and gear is an area I'm pretty interested in. It's tragic how many people perish outdoors for want of some simple skills and literally a few bucks worth of gear. Sometimes a $.99 poncho is more useful to survival than a $200 Bark River knife.
But once you're in a bad spot a light isn't among the most useful things to have. Obviously it doesn't hurt but if you're in a situation where there's no chance of avoiding a night or two out then shelter is a much bigger deal. You need to control your core temp which requires at least one of three things (and probably several)- shelter, fire and water. I know that you know this very well and are a pretty experienced woodsman, I just type it out so everyone knows what I mean. Granted, it's not hard to spin a scenario when having a good light would prevent you from getting lost- that's a given. A good light is always on me, even if I'm not planning to be out after dark.
I don't want to hijack this thread but survival skills and gear is an area I'm pretty interested in. It's tragic how many people perish outdoors for want of some simple skills and literally a few bucks worth of gear. Sometimes a $.99 poncho is more useful to survival than a $200 Bark River knife.
Woods Walker
The Wood is cut, The Bacon is cooked, Now it’s tim
Preaching to the choir bother. I am all about the poncho.
I'm heading out to the nearest State Park after work tomorrow afternoon and I'll be taking lights set up with both the M61LL and the M61NLL. I'm anxious to compare them. Certainly the LL is brighter in subjective terms than the NLL, but I will have to see if the difference is pronounced in the woods. While I generally prefer neutral tints I can see why you favor the regular LL as a survival/backup light- it's a lot of lumens for the battery life with very good throw distance.
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