Tactical Flashlight techniques - take two

[Jeffa]

My favorite primary lights to search with are the Pelican 7060 and the Streamlight Dual LED C4 because they have the dual switches enabling me to perform any of the flashlight techniques.

This was a well thought out and presented thread.:thumbsup:

 

[M@elstrom]

Great thread! I am not a fan of the Puckett technique because it places the light in such close proximity of your head. Having gone through a few low light schools I can attest that people will instinctively shoot towards the light! Almost every time!!! The F.B.I. method is far better because you are holding the light at a distance and away from your head. When we do entries, during training sessions, we try to always vary the light in different positions and away from your person. Either standing, kneeling, or modified prone.

This is the second time this point has been raised in this thread and in many articles previously written on low light tactics, it would appear to be the major detraction from many (if not all) of the previously displayed front-of-body-techniques, would anybody care to expand on this further? :thinking:



BTW nice work (and thread) Beastmaster :thumbsup:

 

[greenLED]

would anybody care to expand on this further?

I haven't "seen the elephant", as they say, but maybe I can take a stab at it...

There are several "threat indicators". That is, cues that can reveal (among other things) the position of a threat; these may be sound, movement, smell, etc. These obviously work both ways and a person in a defensive position should be aware of which of these cues they may be projecting.

Under low light, you can add light as a powerful indicator of "something" going on. It's pretty obvious, really. Somebody has to be activating the light, after all. If you're a BG, the obvious thing to do is shoot at the light, in hopes of hitting you. In every single FoF scenario I've been in, the BG has shot at the light.

If you're the one holding the light, it's important to be aware of this and find was to minimize the risk and increase your tactical advantage. You definitely don't want to get shot at! As a lawfully armed citizen, you also are required to verify what you are shooting at, so it's a fine balance between survival tactics, and the legal requirements of any self defense situation where lethal force is in place. "Light management" is critical.

I'm not sure if that answers your question...

 

[baterija]

This is the second time this point has been raised in this thread and in many articles previously written on low light tactics, it would appear to be the major detraction from many (if not all) of the previously displayed front-of-body-techniques, would anybody care to expand on this further? :thinking:

The front of body techniques have an advantage of being 2 handed. That allows more accurate shots, and even more importantly, quicker follow on shots. (Even if the first shot caused a lethal injury it does NOT mean the target stops shooting right away. ) With enough training it's possible to still be accurate and fast with a technique only utilizing one hand on the weapon. So there is some trading of better defense using the FBI technique for better offense...unless you have the same amount of training time and experience as Policetacteam.

If the threat is not to the immediate front (you are looking in the wrong place and he's got a clear line of sight to you), the bad guy shooting for the light held extended in front of your body actually moves the center of the shot grouping away from more lethal targets on your body.

Each technique has it's strengths and weaknesses.

 

[TMedina]

Bater hit the nail on the head -

Most of the techniques featuring a 'hands together' grip emphasize:

1. Reinforced grip on the weapon to optimize control
2. The light is, generally, tracking in the same direction as the weapon - this improves target identification as well as aiming: gun and light held together, bullet will go somewhere in the direction of the beam.
3. Muscle fatigue is reduced as the load is shared.
4. Movement of the handgun/flashlight is instinctive - one follows the other.

The obvious drawback - the bad guy (BG) can probably pick out your location and respond in kind. You're painting a large, glowing bullseye on yourself in the darkness.

The hands-apart methods:

1. Sacrifices a reinforced grip, forcing the shooter to engage with only one hand on the weapon. Accuracy and weapon control are reduced.
2. Muscle fatigue is more likely to become a factor with the hands are working apart - from holding a gun up and firing to holding a flashlight aloft, either at the chin/neck or away from the body.
3. The shooter must concentrate on moving the flashlight and handgun as individual objects - potentially causing confusion under stress.

The obvious benefit - a BG shooting at the light is unlikely to hit center mass if the light isn't between the BG and your center mass.

-Trevor

 

[Lightraven]

This thread was one of the best on this topic.

I currently wear a First Light Liberator velcroed to my body armor vest, facing forward. Shooting at the light means shooting at the vest. But since I typically wear night vision goggles where it's really dark, my flashlight use anymore is mostly post-arrest.

Here's my thread on low light tactics.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/182540

I encourage other LEOs to think outside the box (of flashlight holds). There are a lot of ways to locate and classify the bad guy without giving him a person to shoot at.

 

[foxtrot29]

I've been trained using the FBI method, in which the light is held away from the body.

As I've been taught, one reason for this is that in a low light scenario, using the light for only short busts and moving around to avoid a suspect knowing your exact location -- when the light is on, a suspect is more likely to aim at the light source and shoot, rather than trying to guess if your body is to the left or right of the light.

Also (and I guess this is only because I'm used to it now), I find this way you don't inadvertantly point your gun at something you don't want to shoot when the light is on, whereas with some of the other methods you have to point the gun at what you are illuminating.

Not knocking other methods, just giving an spin on the FBI method, and why I was told we use it.

 

[M@elstrom]

Thank you for all your informative & enlightening (pun intended) responses much appreciated

 

[TMedina]

Not to resurrect the dead, but SF has a new "Law Enforcement" catalog geared (sorry) specifically to LEOs.

Not much by way of new kit, but the informational blurb at the beginning is an interesting read and good food for thought.

You can find it hosted on the SF site here.

-Trevor

 

[Policetacteam]

As previously stated, this is a very imformative thread. I find it interesting to read all of the different methods / techniques that others are using. My only suggestion to those that don't train on a regular basis is to try them all if possible. See which technique works best for the gear you have. What works for one may not work for another! I am always trying new techniques to add something to the toolbox. Thanks for all the great ideas!!

 

[greenLED]

As previously stated, this is a very imformative thread. I find it interesting to read all of the different methods / techniques that others are using. My only suggestion to those that don't train on a regular basis is to try them all if possible. See which technique works best for the gear you have. What works for one may not work for another! I am always trying new techniques to add something to the toolbox. Thanks for all the great ideas!!

...and don't get fixated on a single technique. You may need to use a couple different ones depending on the circumstances.

 

[baterija]

...and don't get fixated on a single technique. You may need to use a couple different ones depending on the circumstances.

And the converse for the typical non-LEO/military member - don't get so fixated on knowing them all, and knowing which is most appropriate in a situation, that your limited training time makes you ineffective with them all.

The "best" technique in a situation is worse than an okay one you can execute well, quickly, and under stress. A typical home gun owner is looking at a primary task of defending themselves in stationary position preplanned in their home. Secondarily they need to be able to move to protect family or themselves if caught out of position at home. Someone legally allowed to carry concealed is looking at legal requirements to break contact if possible before using deadly force; a technique that works standing/moving in your home may be good enough for that situation. Worst case you are looking at 3 techniques you can pick in advance. Best case you get it down to 1 or 2 techniques that you can master for the situations you are most likely to need them.

Think in advance of the significant emotional experiences. Experiment with the techniques that seem to fit your most likely engagements. Then prioritize. Start at the top of that list and work down. Maybe you get pretty good at one or two. If you have more time to dedicate then you can expand into other techniques (while sustaining training of the higher priority ones.) Think beforehand, execute during!

"The best is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire
"Simplify, simplify." - Thoreau
"A good plan violently executed right now is far better than a perfect plan executed next week." -- George S. Patton

 

[greenLED]

And the converse for the typical non-LEO/military member - don't get so fixated on knowing them all, and knowing which is most appropriate in a situation, that your limited training time makes you ineffective with them all.

That's an excellent point.

 

[lumen aeternum]

photo links dead. nra link dead.

 

[TMedina]

Given that the posts are several years old, that isn't surprising. You might have better luck doing a Google search using the specific techniques you're looking for as keywords.

I'm at work, so I'm going to use a bit of discretion what I search for on an office computer.

 

[BillSWPA]

A few random comments.

Any of the 2-hand light handgun techniques work best if you apply only light pressure to the gun hand with the light hand. Light pressure is remarkably stabilizing. However, anything more than light pressure causes more accuracy problems than it solves.

Indoors, when you light up any of the lights most on this forum like, you have lit up the entire room. You are lit up regardless of whether the light is near your body or not. Indoors, I typically use a simple neck index unless going around a corner. Outside, I definitely prefer the FBI technique to keep the light away from my body.

Going around a corner, I often look high while keeping the light low, or look low while keeping the light high. This is where the Surefire Z series really shines. Regardless of whether going around a right or left corner, high or low, nothing is awkward.

If using a light mounted on a pistol, try to have a grip-activated pressure switch. If not, try to manipulate the switch with your support hand.

 

[whiteoakjoe]

I'm a Harries guy myself, went to the acaenmy in 92'. I like the 2xAA's for this. I never did like the 123a's as much for this technique. (I still have my origional lazer products 6P I trained with.) but wish I would have had a 4/7 Quark AA^2 back in the day, had to purchase all those 123a's out of pocket.

 

[jon_slider]

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...ues-take-two&p=2345852&viewfull=1#post2345852

Next up - Rear switch only methods.

4) SureFire/Rogers. Also known as the cigar or syringe method. This method allows you to have a somewhat two-handed grip on the pistol and still control the light at the same time.

5) Hargraves method - (and I'm sure I'm misspelling it, but I'm doing this from memory right now). This was created by someone from the British Military, in which you're able to control the light in the same plane as the gun barrel. It predates the Thorpe method, but provides a bit less control of the pistol due to less cross tension of the hands.

6) Thorpe method - popularized by Novatac, this method is a mix of the SureFire/Rogers and the Hargraves methods. It keeps the light in the same plane as the gun barrel, but gives you better two handed control of the pistol.

7) Ayoob method - alternate. This method requires you to hold the flashlight in an ice pick hold and press the rear switch against your chest to activate the light.

Too bad all the pics are gone.

I wonder which technique Hogokansatsukan originated?

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...verse&p=5011684&highlight=novatac#post5011684

I met Henry at Novatac. I was a firearms instructor and a flashaholic. I had some of the older HDS lights, and when I figured out Novatac was in Tucson, I called and asked to stop by Mecca. So... I stopped by... then I went out for 2 weeks of firearms training and used the HDS. Came up with a technique that worked real well with the little light, and stopped by again to show the Novatac folks. Ended up getting hired as the production supervisor (it was a very small crew) and I worked nights after my day job. Was at SHOT with Novatac in January 2008 where there was a hug poster with my ugly mug and another firearms trainer who was with Tucson PD demonstrating the new flashlight technique (that Surefire renamed and unveiled a year later as their own) This was the end of 2007. I was still at Novatac after Henry left, and got to witness the... fun, up until they moved to CA.
I was at Henry's today, but I couldn't stay long as my girlfriend was waiting in the car to be taken to ICU. She works there. I figured the way my life has gone, It doesn't hurt to have an ICU RN as a girlfriend!