The Official Zebralight Thread .

[Keitho]

For me, the 64 (previously the 63) usually comes with me in my front pocket, the 600 stays somewhere else close by as a backup. The 64's size, weight, and runtime usually win the day. I'm a sucker for high output flooder, though, so the 600Fd sees plenty of runtime. Can't wait for my 600Fc!

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

SC64 is an 18650 light, while SC53 is an AA one, so those would be quite different.

Yes, but if you're going for pocketability, the SC53 is an excellent choice. Nowhere close to the output or run-time of the SC64, but unless you need the extra power of the SC64, then the SC53 might be a better choice.

 

[R2RO]

Yes, but if you're going for pocketability, the SC53 is an excellent choice. Nowhere close to the output or run-time of the SC64, but unless you need the extra power of the SC64, then the SC53 might be a better choice.

Yeah, I mean size and pocketability. I'm aware it's 18650 vs AA and what that means. I was hoping for a pick comparing the two. Also an AA is nice as a cold weather option. Although I have an h600fc and it's been flawless in 20f weather. Anyone have problems in 0f Temps with li-ion? I know the output can suffer but mediums still work right?

 

[R2RO]

 

[Tachead]

Yeah, I mean size and pocketability. I'm aware it's 18650 vs AA and what that means. I was hoping for a pick comparing the two. Also an AA is nice as a cold weather option. Although I have an h600fc and it's been flawless in 20f weather. Anyone have problems in 0f Temps with li-ion? I know the output can suffer but mediums still work right?

Just wanted to let you know, the SC64 is even smaller then your H600Fc(not a lot but, a noticeable amount). I have both.

 

[likethevegetable]

FWIW, my H53c and Spyderco Dragonfly 2 fit in my coin pocket side-by-side

 

[ven]

Although i can cope, i almost find the sc53w too small in hand, heck the sc63w is small as is, but feels easier to hold and use(subjective). I find the sc53 more for carrying in case i might need it now and then. The sc63/64 for actual use which is planned and the run time benefits from the larger fuel supply inspires more confidence.

Size there is not much at all in it, away from scales and in hand, weight is not even that noticeable to me. So the benefits of carrying the sc63 far outweigh the sc53 for me(personal choices) . Of course, everyone will vary with their needs and wants, especially if they want nimh fed lights.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

Anyone have problems in 0f Temps with li-ion? I know the output can suffer but mediums still work right?

I find that both lithium ion and NiMH start to suffer at 0F temperatures. But my regulated lights (like Zebralights) do a pretty good job of maintaining full output. It's the unregulated lights that show a noticeable drop in brightness. I'm sure run-time suffers in both cases, but I've never measured that.

If you use Eneloops for your AA cells, they're good down to -20C (-4F). But I find they'll work colder than that, though probably because they get some jacket-pocket warmth. Same probably goes for lithium-ion.

I think if you're really worried about operation in very cold weather (such as a flashlight you leave in a car), you're better going with AA lithium primaries (like Energizer lithium), or CR123. But for "normal" cold weather use, I've never had a problem with either Eneloops or lithium-ion.

 

[vadimax]

Although i can cope, i almost find the sc53w too small in hand, heck the sc63w is small as is, but feels easier to hold and use(subjective). I find the sc53 more for carrying in case i might need it now and then. The sc63/64 for actual use which is planned and the run time benefits from the larger fuel supply inspires more confidence.

Size there is not much at all in it, away from scales and in hand, weight is not even that noticeable to me. So the benefits of carrying the sc63 far outweigh the sc53 for me(personal choices) . Of course, everyone will vary with their needs and wants, especially if they want nimh fed lights.

Ven, sorry for OT question: what is this shiny object in the background (vertical cylinder with horizontal ridges)? It reminds me a pure silicon bar from a semiconductor factory.

 

[Keitho]

I find that both lithium ion and NiMH start to suffer at 0F temperatures. But my regulated lights (like Zebralights) do a pretty good job of maintaining full output. It's the unregulated lights that show a noticeable drop in brightness. I'm sure run-time suffers in both cases, but I've never measured that.

Same here, I've never noticed brightness suffering around 0 degree F with regulated Zebralights, though I bring extra cells at those temps. Not only do cells have a smaller capacity, but the lights don't step down due to temp--adds up to shorter runtimes.

 

[markr6]

Yeah, I mean size and pocketability. I'm aware it's 18650 vs AA and what that means. I was hoping for a pick comparing the two. Also an AA is nice as a cold weather option. Although I have an h600fc and it's been flawless in 20f weather. Anyone have problems in 0f Temps with li-ion? I know the output can suffer but mediums still work right?

I was backpacking last winter and noticed some issues for the first time. It was about 7°F and my H600w would not stay on H1. That's OK since I never use that mode, but I'll often turn it on just to mess around and light up the woods with all the snow. I noticed it would step down within 1 second after turning it on. I can't remember if it was stepping down to H2, or M1. But for the rest of the 1.5hr hike, I kept it on M1 which ran fine.

And on my older Fexix PD32UE, the two highest modes are identical in output anytime it's below 40° or so. I think the battery is just old in that one.

 

[ven]

Ven, sorry for OT question: what is this shiny object in the background (vertical cylinder with horizontal ridges)? It reminds me a pure silicon bar from a semiconductor factory.

Just a vase

 

[wweiss]

Would that the ZL had a more pleasing look.

 

[Outdoorsman5]

Yeah, I mean size and pocketability. I'm aware it's 18650 vs AA and what that means. I was hoping for a pick comparing the two. Also an AA is nice as a cold weather option. Although I have an h600fc and it's been flawless in 20f weather. Anyone have problems in 0f Temps with li-ion? I know the output can suffer but mediums still work right?

I've used Li-ion batteries on cold weather hikes several times. I would REALLY like to measure cold temp runtimes because each time I use one of my go to headlights (ZL H600w Mk II or ZL H52w) with Li-ion in cold weather I get shocked with lower than expected runtimes. Each time I thought I got somewhere around half the listed runtimes. In Nov I took our BSA troop on a climbing trip where we had to hike in that Friday night. The temps weren't really that low (in the 30's F). In the last 1.5 hours or so I switched from using my handheld light (SC600w Mk III HI) to using my headlight (H52w). I used H2 at 102 lumens (listed runtime is 3 hours) for that 1.5 hours or so. As I was putting up my tent in camp my light unexpectedly dropped from H2 (102 lumens) down to L1 (2.7 lumens) and wouldn't return to high or medium. I warmed the light up in my pocket a bit, and it returned to high & medium mode but for only a very short time. The battery was spent, and I couldn't believe it. I had to put in my backup Energizer Lithium battery which I didn't expect to even need. This same thing happened to me on a backpacking trip earlier this year on a longer than expected night hike in January using my H600w Mk II). It happened last year as well, but again I didn't measure actual runtimes, but was surprised with lower than expected runtimes.

Just from my use, I'm guessing the runtimes for Li-ion batteries in cold-ish temps are cut in half. I've wondered many times, would I just be better off with my H52w with an Energizer Lithium battery plus a backup battery compared to using my H600w Mk II with a single 18650 Li-ion battery in cold temps?? My guess - yes.

I'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM OTHERS WITH ACTUAL EXPERIENCE ON THIS!! Thanks!!!

 

[markr6]

That's why I often take my SC600w HI in addition to the H600w. I don't really need it or use it much, but it's fun and calling it a "backup battery" sort of helps me justify bringing it along.

Other than my cold weather experience comments above, I can't comment on runtimes since I didn't use it much after the hike in.

 

[SubLGT]

For cold weather use, Panasonic has the NCR18650F cell.

https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidsa/files/ncr18650f.pdf

 

[Keitho]

I've used Li-ion batteries on cold weather hikes several times. I would REALLY like to measure cold temp runtimes because each time I use one of my go to headlights (ZL H600w Mk II or ZL H52w) with Li-ion in cold weather I get shocked with lower than expected runtimes. ... The temps weren't really that low (in the 30's F). ... Just from my use, I'm guessing the runtimes for Li-ion batteries in cold-ish temps are cut in half.

I suspect that you were probably experiencing a lot greater effect from lack of stepdown than low temp cell capacity. I also run my lithium ion ZL's (600Fw and 63/64) outdoors on H2a, but on my bicycle helmet and handlebar with a lot of moving air. I don't experience a terrific drop in capacity from, let's say 50 deg F down to single-digits F. My theory, not backed up by any kind of rigorous testing, is that my lights don't step down very much or at all at 50 deg F because of active cooling; so, any drop in my runtime at 0 deg F is due only to battery capacity, not flashlight thermal regulation. The lithium ion chemistry certainly suffers at low temps, but shouldn't drop capacity by half. For me, capacity seems to be only slightly different on H2 in very cold temps.

But, runtime is dramatically different at cold temps on H1: like, Emisar D4 kinds of runtimes when actively cooled by cold moving air (not much more than a dozen minutes!)

BTW, nice recommendation from SubLGT on the NCR18650f--I didn't know that kind of cell existed!

 

[markr6]

I finally pulled the trigger on the SC64w. Also ordered another IV HI since my first one was defective. Fingers crossed for two good samples with good tints. BE THERE!! NO WHAMMY!

It just occurred to me...I should have placed two separate orders!!! Now I have to wait for the backordered item to come in before I get the one that is currently in stock.

 

[Connor]

According to the sources below you can expect ~50% capacity at -20°C and ~80% capacity at 0°C.

https://optibike.com/lithium-battery-performance-in-cold-temperatures/
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/discharging_at_high_and_low_temperatures

 

[Outdoorsman5]

That's why I often take my SC600w HI in addition to the H600w. I don't really need it or use it much, but it's fun and calling it a "backup battery" sort of helps me justify bringing it along.

Other than my cold weather experience comments above, I can't comment on runtimes since I didn't use it much after the hike in.

I do the same thing Markr6! I don't usually carry a backup 18650 if I have an 18650 headlight and handheld. Why carry an 18650 all by itself .

For cold weather use, Panasonic has the NCR18650F cell.

https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidsa/files/ncr18650f.pdf

Hmm, I didn't know this battery existed. Wonder if they make it in a 14500?

I suspect that you were probably experiencing a lot greater effect from lack of stepdown than low temp cell capacity.

If I was running my light on H1 then I'd agree with you, but since I was running my H52w on the lowest H2 setting (108 lumens), I don't think the thermal regulation would ever need to kick in whether in warmer or colder temps. I think at 108 lumens the ZL H52w just runs at that output constantly without the need for temperature regulation (I could be wrong I guess.) Thanks for your other input.