A Little Accident. W/123's and a Peli. M6

[StuU]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

RY3, thanks for the extra photos.

Again, that UKE2L appears to be blown apart from the inside. The whole threaded section is cleanly separated from the main body.

I compared the 2L in the photo with my own intact 2L. It seems that this threaded section is *very* solid and is one-piece molded to the main light body. Doesn't look like it was penetrated from the outside- especially with two hefty O-rings in the center of the threaded section. This light was cleanly separated at the base of the threads and apparently from a lot of internal pressure IMHO.

It would be really interesting to see how one exploding lithium light would penetrate and blow-off a nearby lithium light...
Stu

 

[Stanley]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

The tail end of the 2L looks burnt/melted with a hole on it. Could the fire have started from outside, i.e. one of the burning cells landed on the tail end of the 2L and the heat melted the tail and subsequently pressure built up on the tail end caused the whole light to pop thru the front? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

 

[SilverFox]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Hello RY3,

I have been reading up on Li-Ion failures. It seems that when Li-Poly cells vent, the powdery substance is corrosive.

I do not know if the same is true of Li-Ion cells, but you might want to treat it as corrosive. I would make it a point to wipe everything down and then treat it with a silicon cloth or something else to prevent corrosive attack.

I have heard of RC Airplane controllers and electronics failing a short time after being in the presence of a battery fire due to corrosion effects.

Is there any signs of residue? You should take a good look at your voltmeter, flash, and the Pila charger to make sure they are OK.

Tom

 

[NewBie]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

[ QUOTE ]
StuU said:
Surefire lithium-powered flashlights are marketed and used intensely in many different places and for many different purposes. And I can't remember every hearing about any lithium Surefire light exploding even with all the countless hours that these lights are used around the world.

[/ QUOTE ]


Of course, there is not a place for a person to get this information, so the lack of hearing is quite probably a lack of communication.

This is not the first SureFire related detonation/fire/explosion of a 123 cell.

If you dig, there is a story around here about a Nuclear plant that issued SureFire lights. After the wall locker burned, they pulled all SureFire lights from use. And this is not the only case....

I think this was it:
SureFire G2 123 cell fires and more



It takes quite a bit of digging to find other reports, but here is another example:

The Flight Attendant had purchased the flashlight from a
store in Beijing. While the flashlight was turned on, the
passenger accidentally dropped the flashlight. A few
minutes later, while the flashlight was stored in a seat
pocket, the flashlight began emitting smoke and noxious
fumes. The flashlight became hot enough that it could
only be handled with oven mitts.

The airline reports that this is the second time a LED
flashlight, purchased in Beijing, has failed in this
manner. The first time it occurred, the flashlight was
being used at the home of an employee.
HAZARD
Consequently, as a safety precaution, we recommend
that flashlights with LED lights and 3 volt lithium
batteries not be transported in aircraft carry-on or
checked baggage.

http://www.haffa.com.hk/files/DG%20LED%20Flashlight%20Warning.pdf

More stuff:
http://www.interfire.org/features/recallview.asp?date=02092004

http://www.batteriesdigest.com/safety.htm

http://www.newsnet5.com/consumeralert/2510994/detail.html

The end of this page from the Pelican website:
"An additional safety related attribute of Pelican flashlights is the built in patented hydrogen purge valve that allows explosive gases to harmlessly leave the battery

compartments. In addition to this patented safety feature, pellets have been encapsulated into every Pelican flashlight. These tiny catalyst pellets combine outgasing hydrogen discharging from batteries with ambient air trapped inside all flashlights, changing the mixture to harmless water droplets. This serves as an additional “backup” fail-safe not found in other lights. Battery powered flashlights are potentially dangerous due to the hydrogen gas given off by over heated battery cells exploding as the unit is turned on.

This has resulted in occasions where the flashlight can explode, causing bodily harm. To combat this potentially dangerous situation, Pelican flashlights now incorporate a special one-way valve that allows small amounts of hydrogen gas to harmlessly escape, yet prevents the ingress of ambient explosive gases.

All federal and nationally accredited approval agencies now recognize this potential hazard and have set specific test procedures to ensure that these flashlights are not susceptible to self igniting explosions. Many popular competitive brands have still not incorporated these safety features into their products."

http://www.pelican-cases-flashlights.com/flashlights-chart-selector.htm

 

[BC0311]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

[ QUOTE ]
NewBie said:
This is not the first SureFire related detonation/fire/explosion of a 123 cell.

If you dig, there is a story around here about a Nuclear plant that issued SureFire lights. After the wall locker burned, they pulled all SureFire lights from use. And this is not the only case....

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder how many after reading this thread are going to look a little differently at that 2x123 next to their head on the nightstand. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Stanley said

Could the fire have started from outside, i.e. one of the burning cells landed on the tail end of the 2L and the heat melted the tail and subsequently pressure built up on the tail end caused the whole light to pop thru the front? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds more plausible to me than the tailcap "gunshot" idea. Same here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Britt

 

[NewBie]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

The tail end of the Pelican M6 looks too messed up and blackened for that Britt.

 

[KevinL]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

[ QUOTE ]
BC0311 said:
I wonder how many after reading this thread are going to look a little differently at that 2x123 next to their head on the nightstand. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Stanley said

For some reason I feel lucky mine is 3x NiMH /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (currently the job of the Mag3X, which is NiMH or alkaline compatible)

 

[BC0311]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Newbie, too messed up and blackened for which one? I'm getting confused. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Britt

 

[Lunal_Tic]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

It seems possible that each light went bang. Run a tissue around the inside and each end of the UK and see if it shows residue. If it does then it was likely destroyed by explosion not impact. It also might be that one was an rapid out gassing and no fire/ignition and the other might have been both.

 

[makar]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

was there ever a problem with a 1 x cr123 light? it seems that this explosions only happen to >2 x cr123 cell flashlights.

is it possible that these explosions come from a combination of one relatively empty and one full cell.
@RY3:_is it possible you used a configuration like this?

 

[Hans]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

[ QUOTE ]
makar said:
was there ever a problem with a 1 x cr123 light? it seems that this explosions only happen to >2 x cr123 cell flashlights.
is it possible that these explosions come from a combination of one relatively empty and one full cell.
@RY3:_is it possible you used a configuration like this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent questions. I've been wondering about this myself. And if it is true that such incidents may be caused by one cell that's relatively empty and one that is still full or almost full, what can one do to prevent such incidents from happening?

After all, there are occasionally bad CR123s. I had a couple last year in a batch I bought for a camera, they must have had less than half the usual capacity. So even if you're careful not to mix cells you can't protect yourself from this sort of thing.

Hans

 

[NewBie]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Interesting point, all the 123 lights I've seen pictures of or reported explosions have always been with two cells, which would mean that one of the cells very well could be ran down below a safe point, since 123 cells are not identical (even within the same SureFire box), and one would naturally be depleted before the other.



[ QUOTE ]
BC0311 said:
Newbie, too messed up and blackened for which one? I'm getting confused. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Britt

[/ QUOTE ]


This one:

 

[Stanley]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

My theory above is that the explosion could've started somewhere else, i.e. the Pelican or even just a loose cell shorting, etc.. Its just the after effect where a burning cell or similar could've landed on or near the tailend of the 2L which caused the hole on it, and so on and so forth... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[cobb]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

So? We need to store our lights with the tail cap unscrewed? Drill some vent holes? Use a multimeter to match the cells after use? Reserve unequal cells for led lights only?

 

[NewBie]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

[ QUOTE ]
Stanley said:
My theory above is that the explosion could've started somewhere else, i.e. the Pelican or even just a loose cell shorting, etc.. Its just the after effect where a burning cell or similar could've landed on or near the tailend of the 2L which caused the hole on it, and so on and so forth... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure.

She was using the Pelican M6 with what appears Surefire 123 cells (and the wrappper piece from the blown which also has a red tint looking through the white inside of the SureFire cell wrapper, the Pelican M6 black sooty inside and black on many of the tailcap components, dents in the tailcap rim, thrashed Pelican M6 threads, and the part of the Pelican M6 and the tail in pieces and physically blown apart, along with the body/head end sitting on the floor.

The TL2 only looks like it was broken by something hitting it, notice the white stress marks in the TL2 body plastic.


It is also good to note there is a good documented history of the Surefire 123 cells venting/leaking harmlessly in the standard packaging SureFire provides for the cells.

Again, note how the distinct SureFire 123 with it's wrapper clearly exploded, unrolling the seal on the top.

Lets look at the SureFire 123 cell and the mystery cell...

RY3,

Can you make out any markings on the side of the other cell (not the one with the SureFire label still on it) that is missing it's wrapper (which the wrapper piece looks like a SureFire wrapper looking from the inside)? I'm talking about the ink date stamp on the side of the cell, as shown below:

 

[Former_Mag_User]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Those new "Titanium" brand 123's from Countycomm also have a red wrapper and 2 vent holes at the top. I have a small box of these. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/str.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/aaa.gif

 

[StuU]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

[ QUOTE ]
Stanley said:
The tail end of the 2L looks burnt/melted with a hole on it. Could the fire have started from outside, i.e. one of the burning cells landed on the tail end of the 2L and the heat melted the tail and subsequently pressure built up on the tail end caused the whole light to pop thru the front? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Looking again at my UKE2L, there are some disturbing features on this light.

*Firstly, the negative contact wire and rear spring are one piece of wire-like spring steel. This strip/spring is hooked into a recess in the front of the light. The rear of the contact wire is the bottom spring which sits in the base. The strip is very clearly bowed outward in the center of the light and would be in contact or near-contact with any batteries in the center section.

*This light turns on/off by a twist bezel. This means that the battery stack probably rotates to some degree when operating the on/off. This would allow the bowed-out (-)contact strip to rub against the CR123 wrapping. Remember that the negative body of the top 123 = the positive contact of the bottom 123. If the top 123 wrapping is breached, a total shorting of the bottom 123 occurs with lots and lots of heat and fireworks.

*Also, this light with xenon module is carrying at least 1 amp through the (-)contact wire. This could heat up the wire and possibly melt through the wrapping of the 123?

*Another problem that I oberved with this light involves the switching contact at the front of the light. It appears possible that an erroneous contact could be made between the brass light module and the top of the (-)contact wire. This is because the light modules(xenon or led) have a long brass section that overlaps the (-)front contact by more than 3/8"- even when the light is turned off. The contact wire sits in the bottom of a 1/16" channel pretty well but is still unshielded and awfully close to the battery surface.

I've got one of these UKE2Ls and really like it. These explosions are just making me a bit paranoid. But it does appear that the basic design of the light is in question.
Stu

 

[RY3]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Hi. Thanks for all the comments and suggestion. I didn't even think of corrosive when we did the cleaning. Opps.

I learn later from my wife's confession /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif that before she use the PM6, she did turned on the UK2L but it was very dim.
So I was incorrect when I originally thought it has no batteries in the UK2L.

In other words, there were 4 batteries involved here. A Surefire, a Duracell, a DP and one unknown.
So at least one of the flashlight had mixed brand of batteries.

I am not sure about the theory that the UK-2L started the accident.
The battery compartment of UK2L was clean. There wasn't any residues that I can see.
The picture that I posted looks like there was burn mark and a hole at the tail but there wasn't. It was just the camera angle.
On the other hand, the inside of the PM6 was full of black residues.

Also, the inside of the Surefire was relatively clean when compare to the unknown one. I believe the unknown cell was the cause.

I look under my microscope but still can not identify it. It "seem" to have some blue tint but I also seeing some red.

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/6130/p1020270c9km.jpg

http://img179.exs.cx/img179/2880/p1020276c3hw.jpg

The other side..
http://img179.exs.cx/img179/9822/p1020277c8fa.jpg

Images replaced with links due to size. Please do not post pics wider than 800 pixels.

B@rt

 

[Dandrop]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Have you contacted pelican to see if they are going to replace your light, and maybe compensate other damages?

Pelican claims that their lights will not explode because of the safety valve they have on their lights. Clearly, this has failed.

 

[deranged_coder]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

@Dandrop: Are you sure that claim applies to all their lights? I thought only the ones with the "Ex inside the hexagon" mark were the ones that are claimed to be protected against explosions?

http://www.pelican.com/lights_aprovals.html