A Little Accident. W/123's and a Peli. M6

[newo]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
If you are interested in another layer of protection, we can take a tip from the RC community.

They store their Li-Poly cells in a Sentry fire document box. I believe they are around $25 at Target and Wal Mart. Holes are drilled into the box to allow rapid gas venting. The box is kept in a safe place with the vent holes pointed away from combustible surfaces.

The Brinks cash box has also been used. Once again vent holes are needed because the rapid gas build up will pop the latch and the lid will fly open. The Brinks box is not insulated, so it must be kept off of combustible surfaces as well as the vent holes pointed away from such surfaces. Partitions can be utilized inside the box to try to isolate sections, but the boxes are not that expensive so people are purchasing several, spreading out their cells amongst several boxes.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is an outstanding piece of practical advice. And, since I happen to have an unused Sentry fire box lying around here somewhere, it is advice I plan on following this very day.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif

 

[Lightbringer]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

i'm wondering about the venting for the for the senty boxes? I have i think three boxes of batterystation cr123s in pelican boxes. does the purge valve serve double as a gas release if internal pressure is too great? is it even safe to use pelican cases for batteries now?

 

[AnotherDaveH]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Apologies if this has been answered above, but did the batteries in question explode, or was there a gas build-up contained by a gas-tight light until it suffered a catastrophic failure? Would a few small holes drilled into the PM6 body under the decorative O-rings vent any build-up quickly enough? This would, I think, leave it water resistant enough for most purposes, but not sealed.

 

[Mags]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

I think these kind of accidents might encourage manufacturers to start designing their lights so that they might be vented in some way. That would be quite a challenge though.

Edit: My LongBow Micra smells like the common lithium battery smell whenever I open it up. It pops too, but I think that is because of the orings on the body. Should I open it periodically? Currently my parents took away my lights and I dont know where they are, but I asked to have them back so that I could take the batteries out.

 

[beezaur]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

". . . force discharge, the voltage of the battery will be forced below its design capability this can lead to leakage or rapid venting. . ."

Ok, for this poor dum civil engineer, who understands only earth, wind, fire, and water, could somebody please explain or point me to a good resource? I had no idea batteries had such involved construction.

Scott

 

[Mags]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Sort of agreed with bee. I have a websters college dictionary next to the computer as I read this.

 

[Stanley]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Silverfox, thanks for your very good and sound advice too. We should never take anything for granted... even if its just a small, tiny fella that holds up to 3Vs of power... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

 

[Beamhead]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

I would call this suggested reading, from the enlargement of the photo in Newbies post, the cell with the rolled open top appears to have had the cell inside the case become a 'projectile"! Scary stuff....that is a solid Oak raised panel that was almost blasted threw.
I am glad no one was injured. This could have been much worse.

 

[beezaur]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Wow! Great info, Beamhead.

Speaking of batteries and fire hazards, don't forget to check your smoke alarm.

Fires can be surprisingly quiet as they fill a house with fumes. When those warm fumes get down to the level at which the occupants sleep, it "keeps them from waking up." Very few people actually burn to death in fires. They usually get poisoned by the incredibly toxic fumes in smoke.

Scott

 

[StuU]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

[ QUOTE ]
SolarFlare said:
Also exhausted batteries should never be left in equipment as they are much more prone to leakage than unused batteries, I assume the light was plonked back in the cupboard once the batteries packed in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm.....many flashlight enthusiasts run their 123 xenon lights down to a yellow beam and then put the 2/3 dead batteries into an Inova X5 till the batts totally die. This might be dangerous?

Another important point here is that the two occasions of exploded lights involved UKE2Ls. In RY3's pictures, the UKE2L was totally blasted apart. This very likely indicated that it was this light that exploded and somehow set off the Pelican light. It is difficult to see how an exploding Pelican could set off a tight, solid light like the UKE2L.

I have looked at my UKE2L thoroughly to try and understand if this light has faulty design. The only aspect of this light that appears suspicious is the negative contact strip- which is basically a spring wire that protrudes slightly above the plastic channel and into the battery space. Could this wire rub through the 123 plastic and short out? With the xenon module, this thin wire could get *extremely* hot and easily short into the 123 insulation.......??

Surefire lithium-powered flashlights are marketed and used intensely in many different places and for many different purposes. And I can't remember every hearing about any lithium Surefire light exploding even with all the countless hours that these lights are used around the world.

 

[Sway]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Wal-Mart has the Senty 1100 Firesafe Chest on sale this week $17.84, I just picked one up to store my Li cells in. Guess it's time to drill some blow out holes and find a safe place to keep it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Later
Kelly

 

[batterystation]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

My guess on this would be that the light somehow got turned on and one of the cells was dead and the other discharged through it causing serious heat and gassing (normal for the battery) but the pressure finally caused the threads to give way on the light. Not the fault of the light IMO.

One of the tests we do here with all sorts of batteries is to clamp them in a vice under a protective shield to try and get them to explode. They vent, hiss, leak, get real hot, but none have exploded yet. Hydrogen gas might have been sparked to further the explosion too.

 

[mike2004]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

[ QUOTE ]
batterystation said:
One of the tests we do here with all sorts of batteries is to clamp them in a vice under a protective shield to try and get them to explode. They vent, hiss, leak, get real hot, but none have exploded yet. Hydrogen gas might have been sparked to further the explosion too.

[/ QUOTE ]

How exactly do you short them out Kevin?

 

[tvodrd]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

I will go with StuU's theory of the UKE2L being responsible for starting the fire RY3 said his wife removed, and the side conductor failure mechanism. It would have also required the failure of the over temp safety (if any) in the shorted cell. The resulting fire could have "cooked-off" a cell in the unvented PM6. From experience, a "cooked-off" 123 will vent a lot of gas in a hurry, and sometimes blow the crimp. Unlike Li Ion cells, I don't believe there is an issue with "over discharging" 123's. (Shorting them is another story!)

Larry

 

[greenLED]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

It'd be interesting to see your setup, Kevin, if at all possible. I'm curious to see how you torture cells so we get safer products.

 

[cobb]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Glad I got to the details on page 5. I am surprised no one locked it for further detail as it read like a urban legend you see on the net, like a fun photo.

I have a 19 led trek led light with the aluminum housing from the ccrane company. It uses 3 c cells and when I open it I get a pop sound and one day when a cell was leaking fluid inside, the lens popped off in my hand as I was unscrewing it. I was glad it did not split the lens.

I have to agree with the hydrogen gas generation and the cell ignighting it. Ive thrown regular batteries in fires and they are no where as loud or much of a bang compared to a can of lighter fluid. Ive never threw a cr123 into a fire to see the results.

 

[RY3]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Here are few more photos if anyone interested.

I am not sure if the cause was started from the 2L as some of you suggested. First of all, there is no such indication from the body.

Secondly, I only found 4 CR123 batteries in the boxes. The two that exploded are definitely in the PM6 as this is the only way (IMO) that will caused the tail cap to fly. The other two (Duracell and DP) only have minor burn on the outside.

You will noticed a Pila charger in the picture. I have two 168S that I use in our L4 and KL1. I also have a few 1/5A batteries loosely in the box but none of them have any damage indication neither.

link due to size

Please do not post pics larger than 800 pixels wide.
TIA,
B@rt

 

[BC0311]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

That DP Cell looks like it might be made by the same people that made the Lisun cell that failed in my friend's UKE-2L.

My friend's UKE-2L was burned but didn't break apart, the polymer threading was overwhelmed and it blew apart.

I think that the DP cell in your PM6 was faulty, shorted and overheated and that the aluminum body and tailcap threading resisted long enough for the pressure to build up a lot more than it did in my friend's UKE-2L.

This would account for much greater velocity when it did blow apart and launched the tail cap and rear most battery with enough energy to break your UKE-2L apart. The intense heat could have cooked off another battery.

WARNING: Handloaders of ammunition know this. Cartridge propellants come in containers that are designed to rupture and vent with little increase of internal pressure.

In the military, we stowed volatiles, like paint and petroleum based cleaners, outdoors in vented steel lockers. You don't want a strong, airtight metal container. It's what turns a fire into an explosion.

 

[chmsam]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

Btw, off topic, but if it were me, I'd toss out the dog food and anything else edible by man or beast in the cabinet. It's probably contaminated.

What is life without a little excitement, right?

Glad everyone is OK.

 

[mike2004]

Re: A Little Accident. Enjoy.

If I recall correctly, in talking with a local Surefire dealer and with a Surefire customer service rep REGARDING my conversation with my local dealer, the white battery with the yellow ring was on some notice SF recieved that indicated that this type of battery had exploded in someones luggage at an airport security checkpoint.