Can I ask a knife recommendation?

[TweakMDS]

I've always been a huge fan of knives, but there's been a lot of stigma against carrying knives, so the hobby's been dead for about 15 years.
In the last few years I've become really into flashlights (hence my presence here) and I have a healthy EDC rotation of 1xCR123 and 1xAA/14500 lights.

Now I'm looking to add a nice knife to that EDC rotation. Not really plan to carry a knife in my pocket from day to day, but I'd like to have it whenever I go on photography daytrips, or go into the woods.
To stipulate: this will not be a self defense knife. I wouldn't hesitate to pull it in a life or death situation, but against another knife, I'm probably better with my feet than I'd be with a knife.

To the req's:

Must haves:

• I would like a slim EDC style knife folding knife, which is not too broad.
• Blade somewhere around 3 to 3.5 inches (7 - 8 cm).
• It has to have a deep carry pocket clip, or an easily available deep carry clip.
• It has to be legal in the netherlands (spring loaded is an issue afaik)
• Budget: around $125 max, but preferably in the $50 - $80 range.

Would be nice:

• Not too heavy; the Kershaw Cryo II is almost perfect but twice the weight of many other options.
• Dark grey or black blade is a plus.
• Drop point blades or similar is a plus.
• Easy and possibly spring assisted opening is a plus (pending legality - if they sell it at knivesandtools.nl it'll be ok)
• Titanium is metal of the gods, and I'd love for it to have at least some titanium or a good dark looking coating. I'd like to avoid plastics, carbon fiber and woods.
• Has to be durable, and I'd prefer to be able to take it apart for cleaning / maintenance.
• Hard or tough steel, like S30V / S35VN / 154CM. I'm not extremely at home in all available materials though.
• I like Industrial, stylish and empty designs. Not flames, spoilers or overly curly etching.

If it helps, I can list some knives I was interested in and what my thoughts on them are...
So far I've looked at:

• Kershaw 1556TI Cryo II: looks awesome but a bit heavy, 1555 as well.
• Kershaw Leek (in various options): Nice form and weight, but the blade is a bit small and I'm not in love with the blade shape. Clip is not really what I'm looking for.
• Buck 277 Alpha hunter (2013 model with S30V): awesome looking blade, but I think it's too thick and way too hevy to EDC. Probably great in the bag though.
• Cold steel code 4 (mainly tanto): amazing looking blades, all of the options! However, I'm not in love with either the clip, the look of the handle or the lock.
• CRKT M16 - Stainless - Black Spear point: looks nice, but clip is not perfect and I'd be worried that it's too thin to use for carving / cutting comfortably.
• LionSteel Daghetta, 8701 G10: love the lock mechanism, otherwise looks good as well. Not sure on the G10 material. Clip is meh...
• CRKT Drifter Large - Stainless Handle: absolutely love the look and blade shape a lot, very clean. Again, no deep carry clip.

and many more...

As for Spyderco knives, I generally dislike the shape of their blades, and Zero Tolerance looks great, but is too expensive.

Currently the most interested in a Buck 277 for in the bag, Kershaw Cryo II 1556Ti to EDC or a Cold Steel code 4.
By the way, at the top of my budget I'm not against getting two knives. I'm a supporter or one is none and two is one for edc use, so there is some sense to dropping some of the requirements for very strong support of others, like a combo of the Buck 277 and another good knife for deep-carry pocket use.

I hope you can offer me some advice in this

 

[msnake103]

You might want to take a look at the Enzo PK70. It's a slip-joint folder with a CPM-S30V 70mm blade, has a titanium deep pocket clip and uses either a Scandinavian or flat grind depending on the model. Here's a link to it through a US-based online retailer:

http://www.knifeworks.com/enzopk70curlybirchhandlecpms30vsteel.aspx#.U-B4mdm9Kc0

Here's a link to the manufacturer's website as well, based in Finland:

https://www.brisa.fi/portal/index.php?option=com_oscommerce&osMod=index&cPath=119_316

It'd be at the higher end of your budget, especially if you have to order through the manufacturer website which uses the Euro, but from what I've read they're worth the investment. I've been eyeing one of these for a while myself, but my Opinel no. 8 doesn't need replacing anytime soon. It would fit most of your criteria as well except for the pocket clip.

 

[subwoofer]

At this point I'm not suggesting a particular knife, but wanted to ask about the deep pocket carry. Personally I find the use of any clip to be something to be avoided. In all cases, either the clip is so tight it damages the pocket and is difficult to fit and remove, or is not so tight and risks losing the knife it it catches on anything.

If you took away the deep pocket carry option, it might open up a few better choices.

I only carry a knife in either a belt pouch, pocket with fastening closure, or in the backpack I'm carrying. Not being a soldier, I don't need instant access to the blade at all times, so getting it from my bag is no problem.

PS: Honestly I don't know why any civilian ever mentions self-defence and a knife. It is the worst possible item to defend yourself with, and statistically is more likely to be turned against you than to result in a successful outcome.

 

[TweakMDS]

@msnake103: Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check those out!

@Subwoofer: I like a pocket clip on slim knives so they won't sink down deep into my pocket and fall horizontally. That makes for a more uncomfortable walking, and I often find myself adjusting the position of how it's sitting in my pocket. A deep carry clip (provided it's a good one) holds the knife (or flashlight) in a stable direction all the way inside my pocket (or jacket / bag) without sticking halfway out.

But a deep carry ckip might not be a must in practice. I'm willing to overlook a pocket clip for a knife that has another way of being carried. Perhaps a lanyard or a good holster or pouch are better options in practice.
I think 9/10 I'll have the knife clipped to the inside flap of my camera bag. A deep carry clip is better for that because the flap will close over it without bulging. It doesn't have to be super deep carry for that.

As for self defense, I don't plan on carrying a knife with the intention of pulling it against people, nor would I consider taking it into town as a measure of self defense. Like I said, I'm better on and with my feet than I'd be with a knife. But if I do happen to have it with me and someone plans on taking my camera stuff by approaching me with a knife, I might be tempted to make it a more fair fight.
However, I think "fair" one-to-one knife fights only happen in Steven Segal movies.

On topic of selecting a nice knife: I found a "house model" of one of my regular dealers: The Eden 106.
http://www.knivesandtools.nl/nl/pt/-eden-eqk106-bw-zakmes-model-106.htm

< Hotlinked pic deleted - if necessary, please rehost on a photo sharing site such as photobucket. - Thanks, Kestrel >

PS. Not sure if I can link the images here, but it's an in-store brand and they're the only store that sell it...

Apparently it's a pretty good little knife for it's price, so I will just order that (and a Predator which they have on sale) for the price of one Buck 277. I'll see how much I get to use that before I spend the bigger bucks. It's chinese made and relatively cheap material (8Cr14MoV), but it looks great. Clip isn't deep-deep carry either, but for 15 euros there's not a lot to go wrong with it. Gets great reviews from their regular customers anyway.

 

[Obijuan Kenobe]

Not sure if you bought already...but I would go:

http://www.knivesandtools.nl/nl/pt/-kershaw-chill-3410-edc-zakmes.htm

...if you need to stay on that site.

A similar knife from the designer's shop will cost upwards of 2K.

obi

 

[TweakMDS]

I had that one in my shopping cart as well
Maybe I should just get both?

Edit: well, the Chill 3410 is sold out and won't go for another 14 days, so I have some time to decide still

 

[Ishango]

@msnake103: Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check those out!

@Subwoofer: I like a pocket clip on slim knives so they won't sink down deep into my pocket and fall horizontally. That makes for a more uncomfortable walking, and I often find myself adjusting the position of how it's sitting in my pocket. A deep carry clip (provided it's a good one) holds the knife (or flashlight) in a stable direction all the way inside my pocket (or jacket / bag) without sticking halfway out.

But a deep carry ckip might not be a must in practice. I'm willing to overlook a pocket clip for a knife that has another way of being carried. Perhaps a lanyard or a good holster or pouch are better options in practice.
I think 9/10 I'll have the knife clipped to the inside flap of my camera bag. A deep carry clip is better for that because the flap will close over it without bulging. It doesn't have to be super deep carry for that.

As for self defense, I don't plan on carrying a knife with the intention of pulling it against people, nor would I consider taking it into town as a measure of self defense. Like I said, I'm better on and with my feet than I'd be with a knife. But if I do happen to have it with me and someone plans on taking my camera stuff by approaching me with a knife, I might be tempted to make it a more fair fight.
However, I think "fair" one-to-one knife fights only happen in Steven Segal movies.

On topic of selecting a nice knife: I found a "house model" of one of my regular dealers: The Eden 106.
http://www.knivesandtools.nl/nl/pt/-eden-eqk106-bw-zakmes-model-106.htm

< Hotlinked pic deleted - if necessary, please rehost on a photo sharing site such as photobucket. - Thanks, Kestrel >

PS. Not sure if I can link the images here, but it's an in-store brand and they're the only store that sell it...

Apparently it's a pretty good little knife for it's price, so I will just order that (and a Predator which they have on sale) for the price of one Buck 277. I'll see how much I get to use that before I spend the bigger bucks. It's chinese made and relatively cheap material (8Cr14MoV), but it looks great. Clip isn't deep-deep carry either, but for 15 euros there's not a lot to go wrong with it. Gets great reviews from their regular customers anyway.

I own this exact knife from the same company and it really is quite a good blade for the price.

 

[8steve88]

The Eden Tools Model 106 is a SanRenMu 7010SW available for about $11 if you import from China. There are several of the large manufacturers (and smaller shops) that get knives made by Chinese makers - Spyderco, Boker, Kershaw, CRKT to name a few.

Very good knife, I've got quite a few, they come in a range of styles and are excellent value. Have a look at Exduct or FastTech for the best prices or even ebay/amazon.

 

[TweakMDS]

Thanks, planning to order a stonewash black one and maybe also the regular black one, but it dependance on their kershaw chill availability. They ran a special for €8.95 last december, so maybe i'll stick with one for now and hope they'll have a similar deal in a few months.
I could save a few euros, but KATO has an excellent return policy, warranty, next day delivery and always good stock, so I like ordering from them.

 

[8steve88]

If you can't get hold of the stonewashed model then try some 1000 or 1200 wet/dry abrasive paper, it works very well on the standard black coating.
The black ones seem to take a bit longer to break in, I think it's the coating on the tang end of the blade interfering with the détente ball's track until it wears through.
They really are an excellent knife. I got a lot of mine from China when they were around $5 each, I knew prices would rise.
It's always a long wait when buying from China, when I order from Heinnie Haynes (U.K.) it shocks me how fast things are delivered.

 

[Full Power]

At this point I'm not suggesting a particular knife, but wanted to ask about the deep pocket carry. Personally I find the use of any clip to be something to be avoided. In all cases, either the clip is so tight it damages the pocket and is difficult to fit and remove, or is not so tight and risks losing the knife it it catches on anything.

If you took away the deep pocket carry option, it might open up a few better choices.

I only carry a knife in either a belt pouch, pocket with fastening closure, or in the backpack I'm carrying. Not being a soldier, I don't need instant access to the blade at all times, so getting it from my bag is no problem.

PS: Honestly I don't know why any civilian ever mentions self-defence and a knife. It is the worst possible item to defend yourself with, and statistically is more likely to be turned against you than to result in a successful outcome.

The clip can always be adjusted in the tightness so as not to lose/tear the pocket..
As for self-defence, that will depend upon one's skill level.
Cheers,
Full Power


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums

 

[TweakMDS]

Thanks for all the recommendations, I'm getting the Eden 106 knife to start me off, see how I like the size and feel of it. The Kershaw Chill 3410 is out of stock and there's a boatload of other options I can't choose between if I'd like another one...

I have one more thing for you knife experts; how much difference does a great steel make to an average steel in practice, if you're not using it to cut bathroom tiles or concrete?

I'm wondering what the real world advantage is of 8Cr13MoV versus something top of the line like S30V?
In specific tests and measurements, I'm sure the S30V is superior, but are there any areas where having a weaker steel like 8Cr13MoV would be preferable?

I know steel quality and it's properties are an art by themselves, but for cutting wood, tie rips, duct tape, shrink wrap plastic, some cardboard boxes and things like that, will I notice a weaker steel within the first year of using?
Can I sharpen an 8Cr13MoV knife on a ceramic stick intended for kitchen knives, or should I also invest in a proper sharpening tool (doublesided whetstone maybe)?

 

[Peace Train]

Have you checked out the Kershaw/Emerson CQC6K or CQC7K? In falls into your price category and uses 8Cr14MoV.

As for your question on steels, of course you will notice differences between them...if you have more than one knife at your disposal. You will also learn your preference. The rest is a bit of a loaded question since there are as many steels as there are purposes for using them. Here's a quick rundown: Knife Steel FAQ

As for the above Kershaw: The 8Cr14MoV is easier to sharpen and holds an edge about 75 to 80 percent as well as S30V. The S30V steel is one that will either hone your knife sharpening skills or drive you crazy, or both.

 

[Overclocker]

i really like kershaws primarily due to assisted opening. deploys reliably even under stress i.e. minimal fine motor skills required

cryo/cryo2 are all steel frame-locks. quite heavy. smooth body lacks traction. i don't like too much

kershaw/emerson cqc-7k. thicker than average blade stock but the "wave" feature is a joke i.e. not 100% reliable deployment method

clash. very ergonomic, fits the hand very very well. rather broad blade. downside is bead-blasted i.e. will rust more than stone washed. otherwise a top pick

freefall. ergonomic, just a notch below clash. stone washed. modified tanto which not everyone will like, but i really like this one

burst. this is my favorite. lightweight, deploys quickly, stone washed. nice and small

brawler. the flipper "nub" doesn't protrude as much as the others so is a bit more difficult to fire. tanto

skyline. one side steel liner only, the other side is all G10. not assisted. i don't like it too much

chill. rather flimsy. very thin liners. but very lightweight

volt2. very similar to burst, but beadblasted so burst is still better

 

[TweakMDS]

@Peacetrain & @Overclocker
The Emerson opening mechanism doesn't really appeal to me. I can see myself getting used to it, but the standard kershaw flipper looks more practical to use. Still a nice set of knives though ^^.

Kershaw seems to be the way to go though, they have some fantastic stuff, good prices and I love the flipper thingy with assisted opening.
I'm currently looking at some youtube reviews of the Kershaw Oso Sweet and the Cryo G10. The Cryo G10 looks nice because it's a tiny bit lighter. The Oso Sweet looks like a workhorse edc with little or no nonsense. Both are very affordable.

The Blur S30V is at the very top of my budget but does have a S30V steel blade. I'd have to hold them all but there's no stores nearby. My store has a no-questions-asked return policy, but I always feel like I'd be cheating them if I'd use it for those purposes...

I worry about getting the first thing I seem to like though, because it'll be just like with flashlights. Eventually I'll probably find a reason why I need the McGizmo Haiku of knives (Sebenza 21).

 

[reppans]

See if you can handle a Benchmade Axis lock, it's truly an amazing locking mechanism. The Axis lock is positioned very naturally between your thumb and index finger, and if you tug back on it slightly, the blade is completely free of any tension and easily swings back and forth by gravity or centrifugal force (flick of the wrist). Now of course this means easy and quick single-handed flick opening, but many knives do that as well, what makes the Axis lock unique is the ability to close it the same way - a single-handed easy flick back closed. You can cut a piece of string in about a second, open-cut-close, without changing your grip. I personally can't go back to anything else now.

 

[Peace Train]

See if you can handle a Benchmade Axis lock, it's truly an amazing locking mechanism.

Agreed, reppans. The Axis Lock has a great ui and comes with S90V, a really nice blade steel for edc. The only issue is that it's a little more than OP wanted to spend, unless he can find a deal somewhere. All things considered, this is where I start weighing the pros/cons of a few more dollars vs convenience and usability. Either way, you can't go wrong. As long as it works for you, that's all that matters. Much like the best flashlight (camera, cellphone, etc), the best blade is the one you have with you when you need it.

 

[8steve88]

Agreed, reppans. The Axis Lock has a great ui and comes with S90V, a really nice blade steel for edc. The only issue is that it's a little more than OP wanted to spend, unless he can find a deal somewhere. All things considered, this is where I start weighing the pros/cons of a few more dollars vs convenience and usability. Either way, you can't go wrong. As long as it works for you, that's all that matters. Much like the best flashlight (camera, cellphone, etc), the best blade is the one you have with you when you need it.

I agree about the Axis lock, very good design and easy to use.
If you want to try the Axis lock without spending Benchmade money then there are Enlan and SanRenMu knives that are a fraction of the cost. Some have the Omega springs much stronger than the Benchmade but the SanRenMu LB-763 is a good one, as is the SanRenMu/Land 6261. I include the links to Exduct but they are available at other stores as well. Ganzo and Enlan have models with Axis type locks as well but the springs tend to be a bit on the strong side, the SanRenMu's are just about right and are good value.
Regarding the steel, I like the 8Cr13MoV family of steels, low price and good heat treat from most Chinese factories. Holds an edge reasonably for day to day tasks and is easy to sharpen. If you have tougher work for your blade then a tougher steel would be a better bet, Spyderco's ZDP-189, S30V, CTS-XHP etc. would be a better choice.

 

[TweakMDS]

Thanks again for all the replies. I let this all marinate a little bit, watched a bazillion youtube reviews, and read up (more) on all the different aspects of steels, locks and looks. In the end, I think I finally narrowed it down to these:

#1 - Eden Quality 106-BW (black stonewash - see above): it's cheap, slim, OEM of my favorite store and just a must to throw in my shopping basket. Can become a beater or even something I leave in the car (pending legality of doing so, might have to put it in a toolkit or trunk).

#2 - Benchmade Griptilian: Didn't like it at first, but the steel seems to be the perfect balance of hardness, ease of sharpening and durability. It's expensive but seems to check all my boxes. I was a bit thorn between the mini and the regular, but I figured if I get multiple knives, it might be nice to have at least one bigger one.

#3- Spyderco Tenacious: Seems to be the benchmark for cheap EDCs. I wasn't a huge fan of spyderco's designs, but the more I look at it, the more I start to like this one. This knife with it's full flat grind seems to be able to be very helpful around the house and even in the kitchen. It's not the best steel, but I do like the grip and again, can be a bit of a beater. I'd like a delica or endura, but compromises have to be made and I chose the Griptilian as sort of my "champion knife". This Tenacious would be a secondary knife, but primarily something I'd edc.

#4 - Cold Steel Mini Tuff Lite: I love this little thing. In a completely different league than all the other ones, so maybe I shouldn't even count it as an EDC knife. Maybe more of a toolbox knife. It's a great knife for wood carving / whittling, but also cutting carpet. I'd really like to put my hands on some nice pieces of wood to start carving with this.

Knives that *just* didn't make the cut (no pun):
Cold Steel Code 4: maybe the most durable lock, fantastic looking, big, slim, but the Griptilian outranks it a bit, and I just can't afford two bigger and more expensive knives.
Kershaw Cryo G10: while I love the flipper and looks of this, it looks a bit presumptuous with a weaker steel and titanium-ish handle (on the none-G10 side). I might still get this one eventually, but not in the first pick.

So... I plan to actually buy all 4. Maybe not at the same time, especially because knivesandtools doesn't carry the Mini Tuff, but I think these would nicely fit into the edc rotation or trips in the field.

Any comments or suggestions on this?

 

[yubes88]

Reading your req's, I was thinking Kershaw Leek, but I will always recommend either the Spyderco Tenacious, or the Spyderco Para Military 2. All are great knives.

As to the question on steel. I"ve had bother 8crmov13 and S30V along with several others. I loved the 8crmov13 because it held a pretty good edge and was easy to get razor sharp. S30V is still on its factory edge two years later. Take from that what you will. Usually the "high end" things are on the high end for a reason. I personally EDC a small fixed blade along with a Leatherman Wave, that combination covers everything I have encountered over the past few years.

Its a Becker Eskabar in a custom made front pocket sheath: