Philips LED bike light

[swhs]

Light output measurements

swhs,
It really is a shame that SuperNova is exaggerating their stats so much that they completely destroy their credibility.

For me that isn't the worst. Most manufacturers used to give LED datasheet based values, but since LED output values have been published by people with proper measuring equipment, this should have gone away long ago. Lupine for example since quite a while measures (and their published values now confirm what was measured by various people before that). Philips said about the LBL (website + packaging of the LBL) that it produces at least 270 lumen, and it does. I think they were one of the first to not give BS values but measured values.

It's not really necessary to measure a lamp for a close estimate: Just take the measurements of a given LED at the given current, deduct 10%-15% optical losses and you are fairly close to the real output (assuming no heat dissipation problems)

Btw., I noticed Supernova have removed the main graphic that said places 1+2 in the test in 'Tour' go to Supernova... It's still in the news section though.

What's the worst thing about them is simply the way they act. How they dealt with StVZO approval delays, unavailability, etc., and their (well this Gregor's) derogatory comments about other lamps etc. They are simply not cool (and that's putting it friendly).

And the values they quote for their dynamo lamps are even worse because the current isn't what it must be to even achieve datasheet level values they give, and then, the XP-E isn't in the datasheet at 305 lm, you have to drive it at more than what Cree says you should do (1A), but of course, Supernova does no such thing, it's driven comfortably below 1A.

 

[thesloth]

I've just purchase this light and was hoping that the knowledgeable members here could help answer a few questions.
I'll be using this light for a 2hr city commute as well as long distance audax rides. For the commuting the supplied NiMH rechargeable AA's should be fine.
For the audax riding I'll want to get as long a run times as possible. Although it's a bit of a hassle to open the light I'm prepared swap out the batteries during the ride. (steverisburg's solution of wiring extra batteries in parallel looks good, but I won't go that far just yet).
The documentation supplied with the light states that the light should only be used with rechargeable batteries.
Assuming one does not attempt to plug in the charger while the light is loaded with standard alkali or lithium batteries, is there any reason why one could not/should not use standard batteries? Do the voltages of standard and rechargeable differ much? - enough to cause damage?
The light will switch from hi power to low power when the batteries run low. I assume that the trigger for this is a drop in voltage. Is there a large variation in the drop in voltage with different battery types / brands?
Most rechargeable batteries display their capacity info (mAh), but this info is not that easy to find for alkali and lithium batteries.
Which battery types/brands will give me the longest run times on a light like this?
-I'll do some tests to determine this myself as well

 

[BrianMc]

The voltages on NiMH, Lithium, and Alkaline cells did not affect the output of blinky lights after the first few minutes in my test. So I would expect the more sophisticated driver in the Phillips to show no effect due to voltage. I did not do a runtime test as thee NiMH would run 8 hours in the more powerful blinky which was all I expected to need and could carry more cells if needed.

On Audax rides, are you planning on losing the weight of dead Alkalines or Lithiums rather than carry spent NiMhs to the end of the competition to be recharged? I also found that neither the Alkaline nor Lithium AAAs I used had any capacity listed. The NiMH AAAs were 1000 mAhr rated. Maybe someone has run time data on the chemistries in the flashlight section you can infer from?

 

[HakanC]

I'll be using this light for a 2hr city commute as well as long distance audax rides. For the commuting the supplied NiMH rechargeable AA's should be fine.

Good luck, I only get 1 hour 40-45mins out of mine

The documentation supplied with the light states that the light should only be used with rechargeable batteries.
Assuming one does not attempt to plug in the charger while the light is loaded with standard alkali or lithium batteries, is there any reason why one could not/should not use standard batteries? Do the voltages of standard and rechargeable differ much? - enough to cause damage?

The light can only work with NiMH rechargeable batteries because of the LED driver.
The voltage across the LEDs are 6.1 - 6.49V which means the driver is a boost converter, and input voltage must be less than output voltage.

The light will switch from hi power to low power when the batteries run low. I assume that the trigger for this is a drop in voltage.

Yes.
With my light the minimum input voltage is 4V.

Which battery types/brands will give me the longest run times on a light like this?

I decided to modify my light to use an external LiION 7,4V (2S2P) battery (a MS900-battery from DX)
The LED driver in the light needs a input voltage of 4 - 6.1V so I decided to use a 5V DC-DC converter from DX!
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/vmp3202-5v-high-efficiency-dc-dc-module-47815
Data sheet: http://img.v-module.com/datasheets/DS_VMP3202_3.pdf
The DC-DC converter is cheap and so small that it fits inte the battery compartment, and it is so effective that with the MS900-battery connected the light housing gets warmer then the DC-DC converter!

If anybody is interested I can try to get a few photos.

 

[oalex]

If anybody is interested I can try to get a few photos.

Hi,

I would be very interested in some pictures and more details of your mods.

Thanks
Alex

 

[HakanC]

Here is a pic of the parts

The DC-DC converter needs a (max)5V enable, I used a 4,7V zener and a resistor.


My test setup

The DC-DC convertor only gets warm, not hot at all.


Finished, there is plenty of room for the electronis in the battery compartment.

(With the light upside down)


But there is a drawback; the light will only shine on max for 45min, then I have to disconnect the battery, reconnect again and then it will shine for another 45min, and then you will have to repeat again until the battery is drained.
Apparently the battery monitoring circuit in the light includes a timer based on initial battery voltage.

My next modification of the light will be to replace all of the electronics with a LFlex
http://www.taskled.com/lflex.html
a b2Flex would be more efficient but the higher overhead voltage for it means that I wouldn't be able to use the same battery.
But that will take another two months or so.


/Håkan
SWEDEN

 

[oalex]

Here is a pic of the parts
/Håkan
SWEDEN

Really appreciate your fast reply. I ordered the Phillips few day ago (based off the review here) from Germany, should receive it some time next week.

As it is, I guess, with most people impatiently waiting on some new toy to arrive. I have been busy running around based off your impression on what might be a useful mod.

The few little down sides for me (based on read impressions) are the 2 Hour battery life, no blink option (no biggie, but still).

If I was an electronics guru, then I would definitely try to mod the entire thing (similar to yours) to use a Li ion for extended capacity (3-4hours). On the long run (if its not hard) would also add some thing that will make it strobe capability (high-low-strobe-off). I can solder and stuff, just not enough knowledge to know what needs changing.

Hence I asked for your solution, with is basically what I expected to have to do, just didn't think the voltage cut off would get so off that the base electronic would think that the battery is too low and you have the unplug it every 45mins.

The further mod that you are planing seems (if I get your right) to solve that problem. I guess its not an expensive mod. So it would be great. The LFlex I mean (although I dont really know what it is exactly, even after reading up on the spec sheet).

If I am correct it not just cutting and soldering like you did (withthe LFlex), but having to also do some programing on the chip, to set things like when to cut-off or what % of power to supple for "low" switch". Or are those all fixed?

I guess in the mean time I will just use it stock when it arrive and go from them (probably based off of your further developments)

Sorry if my questions sound stupid. I get the impression the you are knowledgeable in this stuff.

I also have another (rather simple) project on my mind right now. Only need a little help with selecting the right components and making the right decision about circuitry (stuff like should it be serial or parallel connection). So if you dont mind, could you help me out with some advice.

This is what I want to accomplish on my bike: http://www.lunasee.com/?page_id=74

I am sure its easy for you to comprehend the concept for the video.
(only difference is I would use batteries not dynamo)

Its a very basic and simple concept. Also has some fun factor.
All it need is:

1. Some photo-luminescent (adhesive tape). This I will stick carefully to the rims. Already ordered them (really cheap stuff, hope its not too poor quality).
2. 4 LED's (the tighter the trow the better)
3. 4x rechargeable AA batteries.
4. Other little stuff like: Battery holder, water resistant compartment, resistor(s), wires, fittings, etc.

My questions are as follows (And the problem for me is that the answer to one modifies the answer to the other)...

(Remember I will need 4 LEDs, 2 on each wheel, 1 on each side, the will be focused and positioned very close to the rim side, that is about 1cm max distance to what the are illuminating). See 2nd picture on the page: http://www.lunasee.com/?page_id=25

1. What LED to consider. I am sure I wont need anything powerful, but have no idea what might be too low (lumes / output wise). Here is a spec: 5mm natural bright LED with 0.06W power draw, 3-3.4V (@20mA), 11000-13000 MCD (say "led brightness", not really sure how this translates to lumens), 15' view angle (trow I guess, so this part should be fine).
2. If the above spec LED is optimal (not too bright, not too low) then how would it be wise to wire to say 4x rechargeable Alkaline AA batteries (say 2400mA each)? The LEDs Paralell or serial? How about batteries, should those be parallel or serial.
3. Do I need to add any resistors or would I be better of with a regulator like you used? I have looked at circuits for LED connection and understand why and of that might be needed. If I use the above LED then I guess if all those are in parallel connection then the 2x AA bateries (2x1.5V=3V) would drive them at rated voltage (the 2 extra AAs would be in parallel to that just to double the duration of the batteries). Just not sure about the current thing (which is what the resistors are need for right, so as not to blow the LEDs?).

Is the above logic even close to reality? If yes, then how long would the setup last before needing a recharge (anything above 6 hours if fine for me). I have a gut feeling that the goal (sufficient light for the rotating stripe) doesn't need much lumen and that the above setup might already be an overkill, but I have no way to figure out how much it does. Also dont have the slightest idea what lumens the above led is based of the MCD and power draw rating.
Basically how would you do it in my place? All the components are cheap, so some try and error is fine, but I still need to narrow it down a bit.

I am sorry if the "too many" questions are overwhelming and I will really appreciate any input on your part.
Thank you.
Alex

 

[oalex]

Does anyone know if switching out the 2450mAh NiMH cells with 2700mAh, ones would increase the time in use? Or would that be a problem with the stock charging?

 

[merlincustom]

Check here and following.

I live in the US. Mucho thanks to Wouter for all the info. I know I can order this from bike24.com. The pic on that site of the charger shows a European plug. It also says you can charge via usb on computer. I'm a dunce with electricity. If I plug this thing into a computer in the US will it charge correctly?

Thanks.

PS i was all set to order the Airstream until I found you guys.

 

[BrianMc]

^^ Increasing the mAhr rating about 10% from 2450 to 2700 mAHr will increase run time by about 10%.

 

[HakanC]

I hopt that it is OK to post links to other Forums here
http://reviews.mtbr.com/philips-saferide-led-bike-light-2012-mtbr-lights-shootout

 

[Savvas]

I've been using the dynamo version of this Phillips light for the past few months on my commute home from work. I am pretty happy with it. In terms of light output and beam spread I think it's better for commuting that the e-delux, although the latter may well be preferable in other circumstances. The e-delux also seems to be better quality in physical terms and also seems to have a brighter standlight for some reason. The discussion on this thread appears entirely devoted to the battery version of this Phillips light, (maybe because it has a higher output on paper) and there are a couple of mentions of 'converting' it to dyno power. Do people realise that there is a dynamo version? BTW, Bike24 and Roseversand have proved excellent sources if you are not in the Eu.
Savvas

 

[2_i]

I am using the dynamo Philips on my folder. For me it is somewhat of a niche application. Because of the metal housing it is more likely to survive the cramped conditions inside luggage compared to the plastic IQ Cyo. Otherwise, the beam of the latter is brighter, better ordered and its standlight is well superior. I have to admit though that there exist some situations the erratic, accidentally spread out beam of Philips ends up being of some benefit, likely more by accident rather than design.

 

[a1penguin]

It seems that the Philips LBL battery powered light comes in three brightness levels: 40, 60 or 80 lux. Does anyone have experience with the 60 lux model? The price seems to scale linearly with lux. I'm tempted by this light. It's a bummer that it's not sold in North America.

Trust the Germans to take some low powered LEDs and a bit of math to design a reflector and make an awesome bike light!

 

[cobraboo]

Have had this light bout 12 months now tis a great light shame about the poor run time ,I only get 1hr15 on max,does anyone know if the newer models been sorted to run on max the stated time of 2 hours

 

[Marcturus]

It seems that the Philips LBL battery powered light comes in three brightness levels: 40, 60 or 80 lux. Does anyone have experience with the 60 lux model? The price seems to scale linearly with lux. I'm tempted by this light. It's a bummer that it's not sold in North America.

Personally, I wouldn't take any other optics than the 80 lux one, it's the original, the rest is just interference by marketing. swhs did compare the two.

Here is a pdf showing the 40, 60 and 80 lux products, as well as the tail lights (which will not be unusually bright). Have not found it in English, but I wonder who stole the lux scale from the colorful graphics and who allowed the 40 lux joke to look like a sorry piece of 1980's Soviet consumer(?) plastics.
http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/d...4-in-01-de-LED_FAHRRADLAMPE_60_LUX_DYNAMO.pdf

 

[swhs]

Philips LED bike light: Driver mod for 2 hour runtime on high.

Allright, I have some interesting mods to share:

http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/te...ng/Philips_LED_bike_light/modificatie_en.html

 

[lampenjung]

Re: Philips LBL vs. Trelock LS 950

The trelock LS950 could have been a competitor to the Philips LBL. From what I heard it has a Cree XP-G, if that was run at 1.5A it could have been, but it isn't...
The link is : http://www.radforum.de/trelock-ls-950-stvzo-70-lux-120-a-187431.html

I will give a summary:
- Mounting bracket is crap.
- Bright beam, but narrower than Ixon IQ/Cyo etc. (also appears brighter because of cooler light colour)
- Nice to use (display, buttons etc.)
- Beam has more artefacts than the B&M lamps & of course the Philips (the Philips beam is the smoothest I've ever seen, the later B&M beams from their reflectors with 5 blades are also crap because of the hotspot in the middle)

It's clear: The Philips LBL remains king in usable lightoutput and beam quality. Supernova Airstream & Trelock LS 950 are no match at all.

Hi all, hi Wouter!

I must protest.

I cannot underline the cons! I think swhs had read my new posts. Or not?

i bought my LS 950 in April and wrote something in
http://www.radforum.de/trelock-ls-950-stvzo-70-lux-120-a-187431.html

-the mounting bracket is not the best, but you can mount it the other way around (look at my photos)
-tape the bracket, because is not tight enough (after this, i have a better feeling as to a pbl bracket)
-more artefacts like the ixon or the pbl?

swhs don't like the B&M beams from their reflectors with 5 blades. I know only this one and i like the cyo 40 beam! But it is only (80-100lm) 40 lux.

my pro and cons:

|PBL|

+metal case
+wide beam (two Leds)
+(short) nearfield

-not brighter as LS 950 (my subjective feeling)
-no switch protection
-short nearfield
-akkus not easily to change
-ca. 70/90min. on high


|LS 950|

+long running time on high, 6h!
+5 dimming steps
+ca. 48h on lowest
+accu capacity display (5 steps) and exact time display in hour and minutes 6-48h)
+solid bracket
+overheating protection (one dimming step lower)
+quick connect on the bracket
+small form
(+can be used as an flashlight)

-thin beam
-no nearfield
-no switch protection
-bracket "hard" to mount
-bracket expensive (11,- Eur)
-no bolted bracket for oversize handlebar

"It's clear: The Philips LBL remains king in usable lightoutput and beam quality. Supernova Airstream & Trelock LS 950 are no match at all."

:scowl: No, all of them are no match! Waiting of a better lamp in 2012 or 2013.

 

[lampenjung]

delete because of double

 

[Savvas]

Is it clear that there is to be a revision or a new model in 2012/12? Reference somewhere?

Thanks,

Savvas.