Question for the computer experts

[Eric_M]

My brother Chris and I were talking last night about computers and the topic came up about shutting them down and putting hard drives to "sleep" after a certain period of inactivity. We've both heard that powering up and shutting down a computer is very hard on the components so it is best to just leave it on 24/7. What are the thoughts on hard drives? Should they remain constantly "spun up" or should they be set to power down after a certain time?

Thoughts?????

Eric

 

[Aten_Imago]

RE
"Should they remain constantly "spun up" or should they be set to power down after a certain time?"
Depending on the amount of periodic inactivity the latter or completely off. They (the drives) should set to go to 'sleep' after a certain time of inactivity.If I'm away from my computer for longer than 4 hours, I shut it down completely. For shorter period of inactivity- sleep mode keeps very little power going into the system which save electricity but allows you to 'warm-boot' the system and get the drives spinning up to speed again with minimal 'stress' to the power supply and system (since re-initialization doesn't have to re-occur). 'Sleep' mode is the equivilant of the idle setting of your car's engine.Most hard drives have a lifespan and that lifespan is measured in hours of 'uptime'. Reduce the uptime during inactivity and the life of the drive is extended proportionately. Simply go to your computer's control panel and set the monitor to sleep after 'X' minutes of inactivity and set the Hard Drive to also sleep after either the same or a different number of minutes as the monitor. Another added benefit to this mode is that since uptime puts more demand on your power supply, your computer's insides will continue to heat up unecessarily- which puts even more wear on components than an extra restart or two (Cold boot) during the work day. Like a mini-vacation for you, giving your system periodic breaks to 'chill' -will do wonders for it...as well as reduce our dependency on energy ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[Aten_Imago]

Yikes! RE
"Should they remain constantly "spun up" or should they be set to power down after a certain time?"
The latter. They (the drives) should set to go to 'sleep' after a certain time of inactivity. This keeps very little power going into the system which save electricity but allows you to 'warm-boot' the system and get the drives spinning up to speed again. Its the equivilant of the idle setting of your car's engine.Most Hard Drives have a lifespan and that lifespan is measured in hours of 'uptime'. Reduce the uptime during inactivity and the life of the drive is extended. Simply go to your computer's control panel and set the monitor to sleep after X minutes of inactivity and the Hard Drive to also sleep after either the same or a different number of minutes as the monitor. Another added benefit is that since uptime puts more demand on your power supply, your computer's insides will continue to heat up unecessarily. Giving your system periodic breaks will do wonders for it...as well as reduce our dependency on energy!

 

[turbodog]

Crap, who opened this can of worms?

2 schools of though here:

1. always on
2. turn off or sleep mode


1. pc comes up to operating temp and stays there. thermal expansion cycles (cool to hot) do not happen, parts last longer

2. off and on... thermal expansion cycles take place, parts degrade. energy is saved along with energy costs though


Note:
You usually experience spotty results with sleep mode. Several PC parts do not support it (usually modems and network cards).

Misc ramblings:
Yes, hard drives are rated in mean time to failure, and this is in operating hours. I don't know if the makers assume start/stop cycles or if this is a straight run time though.

Instead of going on and on, I'll end with this. I have been in this field for about 14 years. This time has been in varied environments. The PCs that have lasted the longest have ALWAYS been in instances where they ran 24/7.

If you wanna run 24/7 just be sure to keep the fans and heatsinks clean. That's probably the biggest killer I have seen to computer that run all the time.

 

[14C]

Nasa found out many years ago that you want to leave systems running 24/7 if possible.

 

[raggie33]

i nver shut off my pc.well unless im adding a componet.and they last way longer then id want to keep em lol.

 

[tiktok 22]

Mine is always on. Just turn off my monitor.

 

[darkgear.com]

Doesn't matter! Don't waste the brain energy. You will be replacing it way before you should even think of lifespan of the component. You can't keep stuff for even nearly as long as MTBF ratings. If it's going to fail, it is going to fail whether you leave it on or cycle it a thousand times.

More people are concerned with the noise that it makes. If the computer whine bothers you then turn it off. If not, then set it to go to sleep and conserve the electricity.

Best regards,
Randy

 

[X-CalBR8]

I would also add that it is better to have the computer either be on or off, but never mess around with sleep mode, especially where hard drives are concerned. I've read about far too many people over the years that have had their hard drives get corrupted when using sleep mode.

Not to mention all of the other bugs associated with using sleep mode. Almost everyone that I know that has tried to use sleep mode since the feature was first introduced have almost always ended up just disabling it in the end because of all of the annoying problems that it can cause. Besides, as crappy as Windows is (and this part should be common knowledge by now), it NEEDs that reboot ever so often instead of just constantly coming out of sleep mode all the time. With sleep mode you never get a true reboot. The information in RAM is simply written to the hard drive and then back again.

Even if Windows wasn't as crappy as it is, there are other issues to take into account as well, such as flipped bits in RAM. Whether you chalk it up to surges in power, brown-outs, a very poor quality power supply, poor quality RAM, faulty electrical wiring or even cosmic rays (sounds like a joke but it's not), after so many hours of operation you will have a bit, (or several bits) of memory in your RAM become corrupted and cause all kinds of strange failures until eventually your entire system will lock up, forcing a reboot and can very rarely even result in data corruption if you are writing something to the hard drive when this happens. I've had this happen to me in the past so I know that it's not just a rumor. This is another reason why it is important that you should reboot at least every few days. Personally, I try to reboot at least once every 24 hours, whether I think it needs it or not, just to be on the safe side.

Of course this still leaves open the original question of whether it's better to run 24/7 or not, but I hope I've sent out enough of a warning concerning sleep mode so that anyone that does decide to use it will do so cautiously and keep an eye out for corrupted data on the hard drive.

As a side note, laptop computers do seem to handle sleep mode much much better than their desktop counterparts. I pretty well chalk that up to the fact that their whole design necessitates that this feature actually work as intended in order to preserve battery life, whereas in a desktop, they could really care less about working out all of the nasty little bugs associated with using sleep mode because they know that you can always just run without it without too much inconvenience, and that is what most people that I know tend to do.

 

[Eugene]

I used to have a lot of problems with the sleep mode also, in recent years they seem to have gotten most of the bugs worked out. I usually set the hard drive to spin down but notice that most OS's like to do something every so often so it always spins back up later anyway without me touching the system. I tend to leave mine on 24/7 and rarely have had a failure, maybe a fan due to cat hair but thats about it. A 5 year old laptop suffered a dim screen due to a dying bulb so a $10 order to digi-key fixed it.

 

[Stefan]

Now that I am on broadband I tend to leave my laptop on 24/7. I have a desktop, but based on my computer uses I find the tower to be too bulky and consumes way too much power. The only real time when I do shut the laptop down is if and when there are any electrical storms outside.

 

[_mike_]

Here are some of my humble opinions. More people (that I have known) seem to have problems with sleep mode .... to be more accurate, getting their computer to come out of sleep mode. I personally have never used sleep mode.

Computers do not use very much electricity. You aren't spending much by leaving them on and you aren't saving much by turning them off. But DO turn off your monitor, they need to cool down once in awhile.

If you choose to leave your computer on, be sure to clean (inside the case) more often. What you have is an air pump running 24/7, because of the fans.... the more fans, the more air. That air is not clean, lots of dust, dander, hair, etc. So it is important to clean that out on a regular basis. Especially if you have your tower on or near the floor. If you let it build up, you could have heat issues. The fans that are in computers will also eventually fail. Case fans, CPU fans, video card fans ..... will all die. The more you run them, the sooner their demise. They are relatively inexpensive, so keep an eye (ear) on them and replace them if they start to make any kind of cry-baby noises. Laptops have little tiny fan ports, be sure to keep an eye on those too as they can easily get "dust-bunny" build up.

Laptops can get pretty hot, particularly on the bottom side if you leave them on for extended periods of time. You may want to put something under them so they can get a little air circulation underneath to help keep them cool. Something to raise them up 1/2" or so, doesn't need to be too much.

Also, if you plan on leaving your computer on 24/7, consider getting a good battery back-up. Especially if you are going to be away from your machine for any length of time. Though surge suppressors are nice, they obviously will not protect your computer from brown-outs or total power failure. Brown-outs being worse than sudden power failure. Or, also not so terribly good, the old power off/power on in quick succession. Also, surge suppressors (especially the cheap ones) may only protect you for three really good hits, then no longer provide protection. The MOV's (metal oxide varistor) can burn out after "X" number of hits. Better supressors have more MOV's re-set'able circuit breakers and replaceable fuses.

Speaking of extended run times. Most Windows operating systems have what is called a memory leak. Even XP seems to suffer from this. What happens is ...... you open and close programs. Those programs require system resources to run. When you close a program down, the operating system is supposed to release those resources so they are available for other programs to use. The problem is, that doesn't always happen properly. So, your machine becomes sluggish, you could even get weird error messages, or programs not even responding properly. All you need to do is restart your computer and all will be well again. Something to keep in mind if you leave your computer on all the time.

Yes, starting up your hard drive is probably the hardest part of it's life. However, try to remember this was more of a problem many, many years ago than it is now due to better materials and technology in the new drives we have today. The hardest thing to do to your car is turn it on in the winter, but we all turn them off when we aren't using them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I say, do what you are comfortable doing.

My two cents(maybe three),
Mike

 

[turbodog]

Elec usage...

I put a watt meter on my main pc once. It costs like $40 to run it 24/7 for a year. That counts usage from the pc/19" monitor/800 watt speakers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /laser printer.

Not worth the wasted time to wait for a pc to boot or even come out of ANY sort of power management mode.

 

[DougNel]

I put a watt meter on my main pc once. It costs like $40 to run it 24/7 for a year.

You can say this because you are not in California with its $.25 per KWH marginal electric rates.

I figure that I will replace most components due to obsolescence long before they fail from use, unless they are defective in some way. I thus compromise on this issue. I turn on the computer in the morning, only using automatic standby mode for the monitor, not the computer itself, and turn off the computer at the end of the day when I am done. Has worked for me for 20 years and upteen computers..........

 

[markdi]

I built my mom a 600 mhz p3 in 1997 ( I think )
I put a 2nd hard drive in it about 5 years ago and some time back I installed a geforce 3 ti 200 vid card.

it has a cheap surge supressor.
cheap motherboard 250 watt suply etc.
she turns it on and off many times a day.

she uses it a lot.

works so good for her she will not upgrade.

nothing has failed yet.

If I am not going to be using my computer I shut it off.

waste not want not

 

[Saaby]

I keep my desktop Mac on all the time because it's a server.

My notebook, however, goes to sleep and wakes up.

Not at all trying to be a bigot, but I was doing some reading the other day--which I followed up with research, and if you have a Windows laptop that you are traveling with (Airplane) you should definitely turn it OFF, not put it in sleep. Windows likes to spontaneously bring computers (laptops) out of sleep, especially when jostled (IE on a plane). This can cause problems--dead battery, computer gets really really hot in the case and the result is unhealthy, etc. etc. I'm sure the risk is low, but why take the chance?

 

[NewBie]

I have alot of computer stuff running 24/7 in the garage (14 computers I think), and more here in the house. Some of them have been running since the P2 266 came out, and also the Celeron 300A. Still running great, besides the cheap fans that came in everything.

Seen here:
http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/racknet.jpg

 

[idleprocess]

I've noticed that machines put into storage for a while after years of service tend to expire on re-activation - or at least experience component failures. I'm not sure if they were just limping along before being stored, but there's nothing like several months of downtime to bring out the hardware faults in an old workstation.

The cheaper the machine, the more likely it is to experience problems if powered on and off regularly. Cheap machines user cheaper motherboards, which are more susceptible to thermal creep whenever powered up/down, which can sever traces and cause intermittent shorts on sockets.

In general, you should power off your machine when you want to - so long as you don't switch it on and off every 30-60 minutes. Ideally, it will last longer if power-cycling is kept to a minimum, but it's also exposed to local power line conditions when it's up, and the moving parts wear faster.

I have 2 machines connected to a salvaged APC Smart-UPS 1400. When both machines are idle, they don't even register on the load meter. Turning the monitor on causes the first LED of 5 to light up, regardless of the power status of either machine. CRTs take a bit of power to operate.

[quote: turbodog]I put a watt meter on my main pc once. It costs like $40 to run it 24/7 for a year. That counts usage from the pc/19" monitor/800 watt speakers /laser printer.[/turbodog]
Laser printers chew up power like nothing else. Try running one off a low or mid-end UPS. You'll trip the overload breaker whenever the printer cycles up. Most small laser printers I've seen require at least 1000 watts when printing.

I'll bet that you either didn't catch the surges on the laser printer, weren't using it when you did your measurements, or almost never use it anyway. Or perhaps you live in a location where power is almost too cheap to meter.

 

[turbodog]

I've got a real watt hour meter that I had the main power line for the UPS hooked up to. The UPS feeds everything. So my measurements also included the cost of electricity for the UPS as well.

I looked at my last bill and we're paying $.091/KWH for our power. This includes the summer demand surcharge of $.015 as well. How does this compare to national rates?

 

[mattheww50]

Killer on the laser is the Fuser assembly. The faster the printer, the more power the fuser assembly takes, however the current generation of laser printers only fires up the fuser when it is needed, so there is often a delay of 15-20 seconds before the first page prints. On a 16ppm laser printer, the Fuser assembly is close to 1000 watts. Fortunately it only runs when the printer is actually printing, and will cycle down fairly quickly when it stops.

Older laser printers, left the fuser assembly running at all times, and that really did run up the bill and the Air conditioning costs!