Surefire K2 KROMA & KROMA Milspec

Sixpointone

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Sep 6, 2004
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Flashdark,

I simply wanted to post to Thank You for the time, effort, and incredible detail put into this review.

Regards,
John
 

:)>

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Flashdark,

I also want to thank you for your time and effort. I would not have guessed that the light would get hot after awhile... wierd and too bad.

I will try mine out for an extended period of time and see how hot it gets to see if this is indicativ of the light in general. To this point, I have only used it for short periods of time.

-Goatee
 

Nebula

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Flashdark,

My new Kroma arrived yesterday. Your insightful, timely, and extremely well done review is very much appreciated. Kudos! Kirk
 

:)>

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I fell asleep with the Kroma on last night when trying to do a simple test to check the heat. I woke up and the light was operating on the low level instead of the high level because the batteries were near exhausted... of course it was not warm then.

I did notice that the light did warm up after about 10 to 15 minutes of constant on and the heat did begin to radiate to the handle. It never got too hot to hold but it was noticeable warm. About the same heat as my HDS EDC U60GT on high before the step down.

-Goatee
 

Flashdark

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Goatee,

I am not use to running my high-powered lights for very long, and the heat buildup in them after a short period of time makes me a bit nervous. In the incans, this is not a problem. The batteries have a thermal protection circuit and the bulbs can be replaced, but, in an LED, where heat equals death over time, I get a little paranoid. Probably a character flaw on my part coupled with a lack of experience. When I picked this K2 up after 41 minutes of runtime on it's highest setting (High White + High Blue), I was stunned and a bit frightened at the temperature, especially in the head. More experienced individuals than I will have to advise our forum as to just where the danger point is in terms of heat vs. damage. My personal and inexperienced comfort level was reached at about 15 minutes. More experienced voices will probably expand this envelope a bit in the future. Thanks for your input.

Nebula,

You are most welcome sir,

Flashdark sends.
 

LED61

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Flashdark, another big thank you for your tremendous effort. i hope you have not damaged your light testing it for all of us!!!
 

:)>

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UPDATE!!!

I just finished baking my Kroma in the oven at 350 F for 1.5 hours to simulate the heat produced by the LED while running the Kroma for extended periods of time.

You will all be happy to know that even though the light came out scalding hot (I had to use a pot holder to hold it) there was no damage... to the oven.

The good news is that it came out just marginally hotter from the oven than it feels after extended use at room temperature with the LED on high.

-Goatee
 

Flashdark

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Goatee,

I can't believe you baked a $300 flashlight in the oven at 350'F!

As to your earlier question, I have never left my L4 on long enough to even remotely approach the heat level reached on the K2 in the first test (and I never will). I have heard that it will get pretty hot after a while.

LED61,

You are most welcome sir.
Flashdark sends, stunned!
 

Archangel

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Nice review, Flashdark. Were you holding it when you did the run-time test on high?
 

Flashdark

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Archangel,

No sir, I wasn't. On all of the tests, the light was sitting on a rather cool, formica table-top. Thus, it wasn't affected by body heat. We need someone with a lot of LED experience to comment knowledgeably about the heat level tolerances for this head. I have no knowledge at all, as to what level of heat might cause damage. I'm just playing it safe with MY light, and my recommendations. I have heard on this forum about the danger of high heat because of the damage it can cause to an LED head, and the way it can shorten it's lifespan, so when my light became so hot that I could not hold it in my hand, the alarm bells went off, and I reported it as such.

Any intelligent input in expanding the runtime envelope would be appreciated. Meanwhile....

Flashdark sends, cautious.
 
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Archangel

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Flashdark- it wouldn't've gotten as hot if you were holding it. Much of the heat would've been transfered to your hand to your blood to the rest of your body.
 

Geogecko

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Well, considering the maximum junction temperature of a Luxeon III LED is 135C (275F), according to the datasheet, then one could possibly say that you may have damaged it by heating it to 350F (depending on the LED used in the K2, this may be slightly different, but is usually pretty consistant).

Why would anyone put a $300 flashlight in the oven at 350F? Is there ever a reason to believe the flashlight would have approached this temperature on it's own? I just skimmed this thread, so I may have missed something. I've left my U2 on for several minutes at a time, and while it got warm to hold (head was hot, but not hot enough that I couldn't touch it), it never got that hot. You'd know for sure if it was getting 350F, that's for sure.

Sometimes I'm just amazed at what people do...
 
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Flashdark

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To All:

My K2 Kroma is due back Monday, 10/16/06, from the Tennessee hunting trip. The "hunter's" evaluation will be included in the updated Post #40, "Overall Conclusions". All remaining runtimes will be completed in the next two weeks. "RadarGreg" etal are doing battery and voltage evaluations. When things begin to clarify, I will also include them in Post #40.

Hope this helps,
Flashdark sends.
 

Sixpointone

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Sep 6, 2004
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862
Hi Flashdark,

I must compliment everyone involved in this detailed and inforative review on post number 40.

Might there by chance be a possibility of a similar type overview on the Milspec version of the Light in the future?

All My Best,
John
 

RadarGreg

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May 10, 2002
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Bamberg
Excellent information, Flashdark! I don't think I could add anything further to the runtimes for the Kroma-MS. The milspec doesn't have the low-blue, low-red modes of operation. You get either blue, red, IR, yellow-green or low white at the first stage on the push switch, or you can get blue-high white, red-high white, IR-high white, yellow-green-high white, or high white output at the second stage of the push switch. My feeling is SF designed it this was so you could use the colored or low power white while doing a more covert search, and then kick in the high power white LED to really light up an area or assailant. For the ones wondering if the Kroma can perform well in a tactical environment with the lumen output, I can say it did perform well. I had the chance to so shooting with several of the German CPF members this weekend, and we practiced illuminating targets at 15 meters and shooting them. (metal knockdown plates, not Tangos, hehe). The Kroma-MS illuminated the plate very well and gave enough sidespill to see several meters to either side as well. This would be important if in a dark area there was a second "bad guy" trying to hide just outside the hotspot.

If anyone is considering using the Kroma as a duty carry light, I can say it would be quite acceptable and compared well to the Gladius, SF 6P and other typical duty carry lights. Be sure to practice with it though. With any light, trying to hold the beam on your target with one hand and the gun in the other sounds easier than it really is. You can do it, but I usually ended up having the light on longer than would be prudent if the target also had a gun. You lose the advantage of temporarily blinding your target if you keep the light on. From the LEOs I was shooting with, the procedure would be, illuminate-shoot-light off. With practice, you can get the hotspot on the target the first time, get a shot off and then switch the light back off. I hope this info is helpful. Thanks,
 

RadarGreg

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Ok, for all those that like to see numbers and measurements, I took a new set of Panasonic CR123A batteries and ran them in my Kroma MS on high white LED only. I wanted to see just how hot it got and how long it would run. The batteries tested 100% on my Ansmann Energy-Check LCD tester. The ambient temperature in my office here remained a steady 74 degrees Fahrenheit. My Kroma-MS was at ambient temperature of 74 degrees when I stated the test and I placed it on a small stand to isolate it as much as possible from any heat sink source. Below are the times and temperatures as I measured them on the head of the Kroma with an IR thermometer.

TIME TEMPERATURE(Fahrenheit)
09:58 74
10:00 84
10:05 104
10:10 115
10:15 118
10:20 121
10:30 123
10:35 125
10:45 128
11:00 130 Still as apparently bright as at the start
11:20 132
11:30 130
11:35 131
11:45 126 Appears a bit dimmer that at full charge
11:50 120
11:55 108
12:00 99
12:20 87
12:25 83
12:30 81
13:00 76
13:15 77
14:00 74 Light is still burning, but high power is now about at bright as low power on fully charged batteries.

Test was stopped at this point. The final battery readings on the Ansmann were 0% for both batteries and 1.09 VDC each. The Kroma was still able to produce useable light but nowhere nearly as much as the low power white level.

My overall expectation was to see just how hot the head would get and if it would be enough to cook the LEDs to a level where it might damage the circuitry. At a maximum temperature reading of only 132 degrees, I don't think that is hot enough to kill the electronics. However, in an environment where the ambient temperature is much higher (Iraq in the Summer, burning building, etc.) the Kroma would get hotter as there is less cooling air.

I don't think I'll be doing a runtime test on the other LED modes for the Red, Blue, IR and Yellow-Green. With the main white LED running for four hours and still producing useable light, I'd have to probably watch the blue LEDs burn for days, possibly a week. I hope you found this information useful. Thanks,
 

Geogecko

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Most electronic integrated circuits can withstand an operating temperature of 125C, or about 250F. So I'd say you are not getting anywhere near the danger point.

Even if you were in the middle of the summer in Iraq, at say, 110F, if you took the 58F delta between ambient and highest temperature, and applied that to 110F, that still only puts you at 168F, still well below 250F, and I doubt you would have the same delta at 110F, so it would probably be lower.

This of course, assumes that no one is holding the light, which tends to make the light hotter, since there is not a heat sink source to reduce the temperature. (Context sensitive comment here, it's NOT holding the light that makes it get hotter. Holding the light acts as a heat sink, once the light gets past normal body temperature.)
 
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