Surefire M6 SMO/LOP reflector to increase THROW ??

[Mettee]

Wait a little bit plans are to supply a removal tool with these if individuals need them.

It does take some heat and a very good holding device, you have to put some torque on it Some heads I have done, steam from boiling water worked, but I was not trying to save the internals. You may want to keep the stock reflector in good shape and not get it wet Although I have to add nothing on the inside ever gets wet on ones I have boiled, just never a KT4. With the KT4 it probably would condense moisture since the head is open.

 

[alantch]

Looks fantastic mettee. Timeline and guestimate $$?

 

[Mettee]

Time line is soon, that is the best I can do. I still need to provide all you good guys with beam shots and such I am going to test it for about a week and record my findings and report back on it. I should have the proto in my hand early next week. As soon as I get it I plan on beam shots vs the stock reflector.

I do not have a cost estimate, it is not solely me that is deciding on the cost. We will be supplying bezel removal tools more than likely to those who wish to purchase one with their reflector. And possibly silicon shock isolation replacement material.

I can say it will be a very fair price for all the work that goes into these, and they are coming to you from some of the best guys out there.

I call these space quality reflectors....N.A.S.A. :laughing:

May I ask, what do ya'll think is a fair price, as I myself do know what it will be?

 

[Justin Case]

As a comp, the FiveMega Ver2 Deep Mag Reflector is $40 (camless), which also includes some anodizing work. So IMO, that's the upper bound.

 

[Mettee]

This product is not even in the same field as FM products, so... that is like apples to oranges

 

[Mettee]

JC, what spring are you using? And do you have a picture, or can you post a picture of what you experience?

And this question is still unanswered. I would like to see what you experience in your M6

 

[Justin Case]

This product is not even in the same field as FM products, so... that is like apples to oranges

You wanted feedback on price and you got it. If you think you have some sort of super superior product, then I'd rather see specific examples of why that is so, instead of a mere proclamation. Your "crackup" icon also doesn't endear yourself. If you want feedback, then be prepared for what you get.

 

[Justin Case]

And this question is still unanswered. I would like to see what you experience in your M6

I'm using whatever the stock spring is that came with my FM MN tower. No I don't have a picture.

 

[Mettee]

Feed back on the price is appreciated, thanks. It was more the comparison to the other product that the icon was meant for. Since I have seen and used these in other lights, obviously I know the difference. As I posted earlier a prototype is on the way to me, and early next week you should get the "proof" you are looking for, that everyone is looking for.

As I said a price is not set in stone, I know it will be more than $40 and hoping for $70 or less. The bezel tool and replacement silicon shock isolation material are separate and optional.

I am excited to get beam shots up and show you why I am excited in this set up. I know what it can do, some of the previous beam shots should have shown the potential. I can say that the output with these reflectors is substantially improved and can be seen with the eye(well at least my eye:huh

Please keep the feedback coming.

 

[Mettee]

Couple reflectors...

From the red, up and to the left to the third larger reflector, notice the difference in reflectivity. It should show a difference between the red(FM deep), the second, and third reflector. Each of the 3 has a different coating.

 

[Justin Case]

Since you've designed the new reflector already, what's the difficulty in describing the technical details now? Why do you have to wait for the prototype to arrive?

Your space-age NASA reflector uses a low loss reflector coating that gives >95% reflectivity from 400nm to 700nm? Coating deposited using ion beam sputtering dep? Reflector curvature and finish that work just as well with "point source"-type bulbs like the SF N1, as well as the more "bar"-style filaments like with the MN16? Coating can withstand continuous heat from hot-running bulbs like the Philips 5761?

 

[Mettee]

Not sure I understand your "tech talk" justin.

Fact is, I never said I designed anything, just that I am working on it.

I am sure that most of the other people here don't know what you are talking about either.

I am sure the beam shots will tell the story enough, like I have said three times now.

Seems like you want to fight or something justin, if you cant keep it positive please leave the thread.

 

[Justin Case]

It's simple -- you made the claim that it's apples-oranges comparing your reflector to something like an FM Ver2 Deep Mag Reflector. It is reasonable to assume that you have some factual basis right now (not waiting for a prototype to arrive) for making such a claim. So what is your factual basis?

My questions have nothing to do with being positive or negative. It's about seeking facts rather than accepting mere claims without proof.

Tech talk? You claimed "space quality reflectors....N.A.S.A." I figured you know tech. Guess not? What does "space quality" mean? I figured it meant ion beam sputtered coatings.

Here's the deal -- the various SF TH reflectors work better for some filament shapes than others. For example, the old SRTH works better with smaller, point source type filaments than the bigger filaments such as on an MN16. Vice versa for the KT4. If you have a reflector design that works across the board, IMO that is a big deal.

>95% reflectivity? That's a low loss reflector. You do realize that reflector loss is a component of the overall lumens loss when going from bulb lumens to OTF lumens, right?

Coating can withstand the heat? Seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

Ion beam sputtering. Google is your friend. Uniform, repeatable, durable, dense coatings.

 

[Mettee]

Did you not see the reflector that I have in hand right now that I have tried?

Like I said, for the 4th time, beam shots will be fact enough. I dont need to waste time on you and your pathetic attempt to come off "intellectual", in your own words.

I said NASA in a joking fun way to let you know they were top notch and perform as such...you assume a lot. You know what they say about that.

Like I said, proto on the way for testing. Sorry you are unable to read. That will tell me a lot about other bulbs, as I have already said, for the 3rd time about different bulbs.

I am not sure of the reflectivity rating right now, and I am not concerned as much as you right now. It is being developed, as in, not done. The reflectivity of these is much much better than the FM deep reflector you mentioned, and I know this through testing.

Durability, again, testing to come shortly. Sorry you cant read yet again.

No, no, google is your friend.

As I said before, you are not helping, I dont like your tone, you bring nothing to help. If you know so much, please explain. If not, dont post again.

Anyhow, sorry to all of you that are waiting for beam shots and have to deal with this. The first one should arrive soon for testing and I will let ya'll know what I find.

 

[alantch]

I guess the upper price range for me would be around $60 shipped for the reflector and cushion material. You showed a 3" version for the FM3X head earlier - would you be producing those too and sort of material would be the opener be made off?

 

[Mettee]

Good input. Thanks. Like I said I am not the one deciding the price but its good to know so I can make a suggestion. Whatever the price ends up at will more than fair.

The almost 3 inch version requires some custom fitting to the head as the parabolas size is a little to big towards the vertex end. It hits a small amount but it was easy to correct since its only a small amount. I will get pics up later on when I finish that build to show you exactly what I mean.

The reason I am so excited about these, and the reason I talk them up is because I have seen them perform. The difference is measurable with my naked eye.

 

[Mettee]

I wanted to add that I am not actually making any money on this at all. I am just helping get the product out.

ETA: This is fun for me and that is why I do this, that is the reason for my above post. Its a challenge, to learn and test myself.

 

[cryhavok]

Looking forward to seeing the test results :thumbsup:

I think around $50-60 for the reflector and $10-15 for the bezel removal tool is a fair price. I appreciate you answering the calling for this much needed niche mod. I have a feeling they are going to sell like hotcakes once we get some real world comparison beamshots.

 

[Mettee]

Thought I would post on today's findings....

As far as the Ion beam deposition, that is entirely possible, but it will be at a much greater cost. "E gun" deposition would have to be out sourced since the location these reflectors are made does not have that equipment. I agree that its a fantastic approach to coating and making a durable reflective surface but its just not in the cards for this unless we want to increase the cost drastically. And that is primarily why I approach this in the manner I do. We all know that IF we had all the money and time in the world that anything is possible...but it probably wont fit the bill in this application

Now it's entirely possible that we may have to use another coating that can stand up long term to bulbs like the 1185, and 1909. I think the most popular bulb for the M6 is the 1185, but some may argue. The way the reflector is set up(the prototype), it is able to withstand tested temperatures around 280F. There are other options for coating these and I know that. But for now the vacuum deposited aluminum will be enough to test with. With the reflectors I have here now, they have been able to take the heat from the 1185 no problem but have not been inside the sealed M6 head. That is what the upcoming testing is there for If the reflector does its job the heat should not be a problem.

I plan to test with all stock surefire bulbs that the M6 comes with, maybe a few Lumens Factory, WA bulbs(1111,1185), and the 1909. Any other bulbs that you positive contributing members can think of? I feel that should give everyone a really good idea of what to expect.

Hopefully everyone has seen the beam shots I posted on page 2 post #50. They show the difference between and Mcr20L and a reflector made by this same company in a comparable size. That shot is taken with a sony TX5 hand held on twilight mode. So there is of course more detail that did not get picked up, but it really shows what they can do.

Cryhavok, I have seen these in use in person in lights I have built, they do the job well, that is why I come across so excited and talk them up so much. I agree with you.

 

[Mettee]

Ok guys, going to move this over to Homemade and Modified Flashlights Discussion . Lets carry on there.

Test part is in, and a few pics for you.