Surefire tactician

UVvis

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To be fair, think of it this way,

Surefire has long had a target market geared around combative uses of light. So, military, LEO and citizens are prime customers. Good safe lithium primaries are considerably cheaper when you are buying them in mass quantity (think tens of thousands) under gov't contracts. So, it is easy to just replace cells when light starts to dim, problem solved. This satisfies much of their target market.

Surefire has traditionally lagged behind Streamlight in terms of ease of use rechargeable flashlights. What you generally want is something ready to go, on a charger, in the car or somewhere, that goes back on the charger when you get back in the car. On your belt or in your pocket you may have your backup light, which isn't going to see as much use. And for both LEO and Mil applications, you want to pay attention to concepts of light discipline. Also consider weapon lights that maybe see use times in the tens of minutes at a go, as it can be kinda rude to point your M4 at everything you are trying to see. Personally I've carried an E2e with a KX2C head, or an LX2 everyday for ten-ish years (perfect form factor for me). I usually use lithium primaries in these lights, as it is easy. As the cells fade, I use them single use in headlamps when I'm fishing or whatever.

Plus, think about how many people actually have a quality flashlight. Then think about how many of those are actually flashlight geeks (guilty myself). Just because someone carries a flashlight, gun, or drives a car daily for work means they are a flashlight, gun or car person.

Anyhow, I'm just pointing out why many people just don't find it worth the hassle of dealing with or caring about li-ion cells. We agree on the concept, and it is probably stuff you knew anyway. It's just hard for many to justify the added effort and cost of li-ion cell use.
 

ChrisGarrett

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To be fair, think of it this way,

Surefire has long had a target market geared around combative uses of light. So, military, LEO and citizens are prime customers. Good safe lithium primaries are considerably cheaper when you are buying them in mass quantity (think tens of thousands) under gov't contracts. So, it is easy to just replace cells when light starts to dim, problem solved. This satisfies much of their target market.

Surefire has traditionally lagged behind Streamlight in terms of ease of use rechargeable flashlights. What you generally want is something ready to go, on a charger, in the car or somewhere, that goes back on the charger when you get back in the car. On your belt or in your pocket you may have your backup light, which isn't going to see as much use. And for both LEO and Mil applications, you want to pay attention to concepts of light discipline. Also consider weapon lights that maybe see use times in the tens of minutes at a go, as it can be kinda rude to point your M4 at everything you are trying to see. Personally I've carried an E2e with a KX2C head, or an LX2 everyday for ten-ish years (perfect form factor for me). I usually use lithium primaries in these lights, as it is easy. As the cells fade, I use them single use in headlamps when I'm fishing or whatever.

Plus, think about how many people actually have a quality flashlight. Then think about how many of those are actually flashlight geeks (guilty myself). Just because someone carries a flashlight, gun, or drives a car daily for work means they are a flashlight, gun or car person.

Anyhow, I'm just pointing out why many people just don't find it worth the hassle of dealing with or caring about li-ion cells. We agree on the concept, and it is probably stuff you knew anyway. It's just hard for many to justify the added effort and cost of li-ion cell use.

Hey, I'm not trying to argue about anything and as I said above, from what I've learned here and over on the gun boards that I frequent, is that SF guys are generally 'li-ion' ignorant. For the exact reasons that you've spelled out here: SF didn't really support the use of li-ion rechargeables in the first place, because SF marketed their own, relatively safe brand of batteries (Panasonic USA), giving them a monetary incentive to not support rechargeables. Again, not out of pure altruism.

Also, they could sell those CR123As to any agency entering into a contract with them, for their lights, so the end user didn't have to worry about switching over, since he was being handed boxes and boxes of them out in the field. Simple enough. If the taxpayer is paying, why spend your own cash on this stuff, right?

Now that SF has lost some of its military/police contracts due to war efforts winding down, or police budgets tightening, they're a bit more 'with the times', shall I say?

My reply was to the guy already using 'li-ion' cells in his new X, Y, Z SF light, not whether it's prudent, or advisable, to do so.

You hopped on board about why bothering, when apparently, you have them handed to you on the taxpayer's dime.

If you're paying for CR123As and you're using your light more than a few minutes a day, day in and day out, then you're blowing money by using primaries. Especially today, when we have inexpensive lights that would overly tax a CR123A's capabilities (1.5A).

Chris
 

UVvis

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Exactly,

Plus as long as Surefire is in the battery selling business, why bother spending more boring out larger holes!
 

sebis

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Hi guys, question for those that have the Tactician already, is it powerful enough at close range within 7 yards to temporarily blind a potential assailant? I currently carry a Malkoff M61HOT MD2 that is "only" 500 lumens but has a TIR lens. I am looking for something slimmer with the same manual of arms, i.e. rotate the head for low.

TIA

--Sebis
 

UVvis

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Hi guys, question for those that have the Tactician already, is it powerful enough at close range within 7 yards to temporarily blind a potential assailant? I currently carry a Malkoff M61HOT MD2 that is "only" 500 lumens but has a TIR lens. I am looking for something slimmer with the same manual of arms, i.e. rotate the head for low.

TIA

--Sebis

Temporarily blinding is just overloading your photoreceptors. The time of effect depends on the eye's adjustment level to existing ambient lighting, combined with beam intensity of the light in question. So, technically, yes, and it depends, and the effect only lasts for a very short time.
 

sebis

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Temporarily blinding is just overloading your photoreceptors. The time of effect depends on the eye's adjustment level to existing ambient lighting, combined with beam intensity of the light in question. So, technically, yes, and it depends, and the effect only lasts for a very short time.

I only need a second or two, see the technique here demonstrated by a pro, I am not a prod thou thus I would need more time thus looking for the strongest light available for pocket carry.

 

APS

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John, the guy using that technique, uses the Tactician now. So it's probably bright enough??
 

JohnnyBravo

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Still having thoughts of buying this light. Currently, I'm rotating between my UM2 and P1R for night stand duty. I don't have any MaxVision lights yet. So I'm still on the fence about this. Wondering if I could "push" myself to click to buy.

Oi. Decisions...
 

Jax214

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Feb 24, 2018
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I recently picked up a tactician off Amazon. I notice the light gets pretty hot fairly quickly. Within 30s-1min of continuous use, lens and bezel is hot to touch and the entire body of the unit is warm. The lens actually left a burn mark on my couch after setting it down continuously on for less than 30secs.

For those of you that have one, does this seem normal for this light?

Thanks.
 

tokaji

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The Tactician is not an utility light. It is designed for intermittent use in tactical situations.

I recently picked up a tactician off Amazon. I notice the light gets pretty hot fairly quickly. Within 30s-1min of continuous use, lens and bezel is hot to touch and the entire body of the unit is warm. The lens actually left a burn mark on my couch after setting it down continuously on for less than 30secs.

For those of you that have one, does this seem normal for this light?

Thanks.
 

Modernflame

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I recently picked up a tactician off Amazon. I notice the light gets pretty hot fairly quickly. Within 30s-1min of continuous use, lens and bezel is hot to touch and the entire body of the unit is warm. The lens actually left a burn mark on my couch after setting it down continuously on for less than 30secs.

For those of you that have one, does this seem normal for this light?

Thanks.

Most any flashlight of this form factor and output will get very hot if used continuously. I think it should take a little longer than one minute to reach that temperature, though.
 

vadimax

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I recently picked up a tactician off Amazon. I notice the light gets pretty hot fairly quickly. Within 30s-1min of continuous use, lens and bezel is hot to touch and the entire body of the unit is warm. The lens actually left a burn mark on my couch after setting it down continuously on for less than 30secs.

For those of you that have one, does this seem normal for this light?

Thanks.

To be sincere, most of nowadays lights are capable to set your house on fire if you use them improperly. This ain't exclusive Tactician ability. Have you noticed "CAUTION: HOT SURFACE" warning on the light's head? How do you think why is it there?
 
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bykfixer

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I noticed mine got really warm using primaries too during my run time test. But I was always able to hold it. It was much cooler using a 16650.

Nobody is really speaking of this in the 2-T thread. I kinda figured the Tactician would get noticeably warm due to proper radiation built in by SureFire engineers but not hot.

Now when I first read the initial draw of the 2-T was 3.5 amps and safety limits of primaries stops at about 3, I thought "my goodness, that thing is a pipe bomb". So up until last night I had only used momentary high and only 25-45 seconds at a time. I understand these aren't typically going to be a steady source of light for S&R use. At one point I twisted my 2-T switch to constant high and set it aside while getting set up for a max throw photo. After a couple of minutes the entire light was warm. Not burn your skin hot but warm enough to cause me to hurry up and take the photo.

I don't mind the light getting hot as that is a good thing. But 5 minutes later I removed the batteries and they were much hotter than I was comfortable with. They didn't burn me, but it was an uneasy feeling to hold a pair of lithium primaries warm enough to melt butter.
 

bdr

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I switched it on for 3 hours for the test(3 hours on cr123 and 3 hours on 16650), it was very hot I could not even touch. I was worried, but as you can see I'm all right and I'm writing now. :) ))))
 

Chadder

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I switched it on for 3 hours for the test(3 hours on cr123 and 3 hours on 16650), it was very hot I could not even touch. I was worried, but as you can see I'm all right and I'm writing now. :) ))))

What batteries where you using? I need me some of those! I'm guessing there was initial heat but as the brightness dropped so did the heat. Also holding the light helps dissipate the heat vs leaving the light setting untouched.
 

Chadder

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I could not read the writing but I appreciated the graph. One of the things I have always liked in surefire was the long period of tapering light vs the light just shutting off. I have used the dimming light from an L4 during power outages for around the house use. I was hiking along a dark beach once with my E2DL and even though high would no longer work the drop to low was more than enough light to hike home.
 
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