angelofwar
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks, Icebreak! It would be much appreciated!
What is the best flashlight in the fog?
- Thread starter efka
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Thanks, Icebreak! It would be much appreciated!
lctorana
Flashlight Enthusiast
Just one thing. There is a school of thought, e.g. yellow's post #38, that favours a higher-power light source.
M@elstrom
Flashlight Enthusiast
angelofwar
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks for the pic of the pruple fulton filter, maelstrom...I'll still try to get some with some blood in them.
M@elstrom
Flashlight Enthusiast
You're welcome... those shot were only possible because of your host's switch! :thumbsup:
FWIW my LED vampire project puts out way more light than the Fulton on 100% NiMHs with that purple filter fitted
I will admit it's perhaps a bit lengthy, but it's a pretty simple to understand explaination IMHO. I'm thinking maybe if one were to take beamshots against a non reflective black background, you'd be able to see the fog no matter what tint it is.
This one has me curious, isn't the G2L a more floody beam?:thinking:
lctorana
Flashlight Enthusiast
Great question. Would love to know.
Can anyone from NSW or Qld chime in?
Can anyone from NSW or Qld chime in?
angelofwar
Flashlight Enthusiast
Slightly off topic, but kinda relevant...just tried it out last night...the "laser beam" KL3's are USELESS in thick wood's...no periphial vision what so ever...can you say "HELLO tree branch!!!"
Forgive an ignorant old fart but I find that it depends on a combination of factors. As someone who has done a lot of driving in fog, working in fog at roadside, and just plain walking around in a fog crackup:
) please permit the following observations and questions and whilesome of this applies to headlights it works as well for flashlights in most cases.
Is it a matter of seeing or being seen? I have been in situations where seeing was less important than being seen. Oncoming drivers notice bright glow in the fog better than pencil beams. Seeing a reflector can be easier with one type of light or beam pattern and can be more important than actually seeing down the road or path.
Seeing in the fog with a light depends on several different factors in my experience. If you are driving with pencil beam fog lights that are properly aimed and positioned (mounted low on the vehicle and aimed at a downward angle) that works better for me than an equal amount of light that is either mounted higher on the vehicle or aimed "flat." I know of several people who would even drive with their headlights off and run only with fog lights. Most people who have ridden with them agreed to some degree. However I know of others who insist on high beams and for those people it seems that the ability to not be blinded by the spill and extra lumens is more a matter of their physiology than the lights since people riding with them mentioned it being close to being snow blind. The same things can be said to a large degree about walking in fog (some likea narrow, low angle beam and some like a really bright wall of light).
Something else to consider -- color (tint and/or temperature) also deals with a matter of contrast. Some situations benefit from perceived changes in the background contrast. For instance, conditions of snow and or fog where seeing the terrain of the road is as or more important than distance comes to mind. If the road is rutted or the ditch blends in with the road (especially nasty in a combo of fog and snow), distance can be a secondary concern and contrast becomes a significant factor. Ditto for walking in fog and snow.
Like most things in life there are more than a few considerations and more than a few viewpoints (literally). People tend to think of light as being used only for aiding general vision and not about it being important so they are able to be seen as well. Additionally being able to see reflectors and discern shapes can sometimes be more important than seeing in detail.
It's important to consider more factors and to think about things "in three dimensions."
crackup:) please permit the following observations and questions and whilesome of this applies to headlights it works as well for flashlights in most cases.Is it a matter of seeing or being seen? I have been in situations where seeing was less important than being seen. Oncoming drivers notice bright glow in the fog better than pencil beams. Seeing a reflector can be easier with one type of light or beam pattern and can be more important than actually seeing down the road or path.
Seeing in the fog with a light depends on several different factors in my experience. If you are driving with pencil beam fog lights that are properly aimed and positioned (mounted low on the vehicle and aimed at a downward angle) that works better for me than an equal amount of light that is either mounted higher on the vehicle or aimed "flat." I know of several people who would even drive with their headlights off and run only with fog lights. Most people who have ridden with them agreed to some degree. However I know of others who insist on high beams and for those people it seems that the ability to not be blinded by the spill and extra lumens is more a matter of their physiology than the lights since people riding with them mentioned it being close to being snow blind. The same things can be said to a large degree about walking in fog (some likea narrow, low angle beam and some like a really bright wall of light).
Something else to consider -- color (tint and/or temperature) also deals with a matter of contrast. Some situations benefit from perceived changes in the background contrast. For instance, conditions of snow and or fog where seeing the terrain of the road is as or more important than distance comes to mind. If the road is rutted or the ditch blends in with the road (especially nasty in a combo of fog and snow), distance can be a secondary concern and contrast becomes a significant factor. Ditto for walking in fog and snow.
Like most things in life there are more than a few considerations and more than a few viewpoints (literally). People tend to think of light as being used only for aiding general vision and not about it being important so they are able to be seen as well. Additionally being able to see reflectors and discern shapes can sometimes be more important than seeing in detail.
It's important to consider more factors and to think about things "in three dimensions."
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Wattnot
Enlightened
This is a very interesting discussion. I no longer believe that incans are automatically better. Enough proof was shown that less spill will give you more distance in fog. It's also been proven, without fog involved, that incans render objects better. So it would then make sense that incans would be better in fog but I now believe the tighter beam will light up the object more, incan or led. However, what you are looking AT might benefit more from the incan. That could be what is causing this argument to continue.
Next time we get some fog around here, I'm going to take my Tiablo A9 and some incans out and play!
Could one assume that the all of the same things discussed here apply to smoke as well? Whatever light source wins for fog could then be considered the best for a firefighter?
Next time we get some fog around here, I'm going to take my Tiablo A9 and some incans out and play!
Could one assume that the all of the same things discussed here apply to smoke as well? Whatever light source wins for fog could then be considered the best for a firefighter?
Amen chmsam, I agree with you 100%.
I have been with people who said that fog lights where totally useless, others said it was worse than high beams, and met others who prefered them even in light rain. Everyone sees a little differently and what you're looking at (of for) is a very important part of what kind of light you should use PERIOD, fog or no fog.
I have been with people who said that fog lights where totally useless, others said it was worse than high beams, and met others who prefered them even in light rain. Everyone sees a little differently and what you're looking at (of for) is a very important part of what kind of light you should use PERIOD, fog or no fog.
M@elstrom
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yeah, I was just hoping you'd shorten it down a little
According to Surefire's website the G2L is 80Lm whilst the G2/6P combo should yield 60Lm (or thereabouts), but I got the impression from the post that the G2 is the primary go to light and hence may see more use than the G2L (thus having partly depleted cells) :thumbsup:
Icebreak
Flashlight Enthusiast
Always important and should never be overlooked, yes; totally agree with this.
What's all this tomfoolery about tints? The fundamental physics of light scatter are rather adamant regarding the order in which they eat up wavelengths- The light physically interacts with the particles more often at shorter wavelengths. Blues simply won't make it as far as reds before hitting something and rebounding in unhelpful directions.
That said, there's far more than one factor to consider. Spill bouncing back into your face is definitely a problem if it's to the point of occluding what's past it and wrecking your low light vision. A warm tint doesn't matter much if it fails to punch through anyway. There's also nothing stopping you from powering through with cool light if you've got the chutzpah.
Unwelcome education: Wavelength scatter phenomena is also why the sky appears blue. Those wavelengths get scattered and diffuse down to us (also obscuring our view of space) while the warmer wavelengths punch through the atmosphere more directly.
That said, there's far more than one factor to consider. Spill bouncing back into your face is definitely a problem if it's to the point of occluding what's past it and wrecking your low light vision. A warm tint doesn't matter much if it fails to punch through anyway. There's also nothing stopping you from powering through with cool light if you've got the chutzpah.
Unwelcome education: Wavelength scatter phenomena is also why the sky appears blue. Those wavelengths get scattered and diffuse down to us (also obscuring our view of space) while the warmer wavelengths punch through the atmosphere more directly.
Water drops in fog (aka "droplets") are way to big for rayleigh scattering to have any effect.
Rayleigh scattering by air molecules is why the clear sky looks blue and the sunset is red.
Wow, I completely short-circuited that with Mie scattering somewhere along the way. Probably crossed it with Rayleigh scatter in bodies of water. You are correct, of course.
Which brings up instead contrast being exacerbated by obscurement and backscatter glare, and should have been my first thought...
Nevermind me, I've been up way too long and am clearly not right in the head.
Which brings up instead contrast being exacerbated by obscurement and backscatter glare, and should have been my first thought...
Nevermind me, I've been up way too long and am clearly not right in the head.
That's pretty much right on... water, hence humidity, scatters blue wavelenghts (which is why the sunset appears reddish/orange) and therefore a warmer tint should get farther through in fog. Same kind of phenomenon with suspended particles because of the relationship of size of the particles and the wavelenght. However, a flashlight only throws as far a a few hundred meters, not kilometers, so this effect is fairly reduced. I have heard so many different reactions to fog, snow and rain with different types of car headlights that I am lead to believe that everyone's perception is so different in these kinds of conditions that two persons could use completely different types of lights and still think the other one is nuts.
... Just an opinion, but I think the best way to find out is to wait for the next thickest fog, go out with all your lights and take notes and a few pictures. With a little lick we could start the FOG penetration comparison thread and see what people think out of experience.
StarHalo
Flashaholic
- The tint/particle size/wavelength are all irrelevant; if the light interacted with the water particles at all, then you would see a tint shifting over a distance - upon first noticing a car with fog lights, they would at first appear red and then slowly shift to the correct color; this obviously doesn't happen. You can use whatever color you want, but white will have the best rendering/most reflectivity off any given object.
- The thinnest beam on an axis farthest from your point of view will always be the best fog light. The narrower the beam is, the farther it penetrates through the fog, and the farther it is away from your view line will provide the least backscatter. Of your flashlights, choose the one that has the most throw, and hold it away from your body with your arm all extended all the way out to one side - that's your best fog light.
- Because more throw is better, many people perceive incans as being better than other light types in fog; this is because most incans are specifically set up to take advantage of how well an incan bulb can throw. The tiny filament with its very high and compact surface brightness is usually paired with a large reflector, making for a good thrower/fog cutter. But if you compared an LED and incan with identical lux numbers and beam profiles in a fog, there would be no visible difference. A thrower LED will do better in fog than a floody incan.
- The thinnest beam on an axis farthest from your point of view will always be the best fog light. The narrower the beam is, the farther it penetrates through the fog, and the farther it is away from your view line will provide the least backscatter. Of your flashlights, choose the one that has the most throw, and hold it away from your body with your arm all extended all the way out to one side - that's your best fog light.
- Because more throw is better, many people perceive incans as being better than other light types in fog; this is because most incans are specifically set up to take advantage of how well an incan bulb can throw. The tiny filament with its very high and compact surface brightness is usually paired with a large reflector, making for a good thrower/fog cutter. But if you compared an LED and incan with identical lux numbers and beam profiles in a fog, there would be no visible difference. A thrower LED will do better in fog than a floody incan.
Star Halo,
I kinda agree there, but my experience from last summer has shown that a warmer colored LED light had less of a shining beam effect than a cooler color temperature LED. On two lights of comparable throw and output, I could tell that as much light did hit the trees at a hundred feet or more, but the cooler colored light just had this bright beam I barely could see through. The warmer colored light still had a beam effect, but I could see better through it.
I kinda agree there, but my experience from last summer has shown that a warmer colored LED light had less of a shining beam effect than a cooler color temperature LED. On two lights of comparable throw and output, I could tell that as much light did hit the trees at a hundred feet or more, but the cooler colored light just had this bright beam I barely could see through. The warmer colored light still had a beam effect, but I could see better through it.
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