When does a flashlight simply become a host?

[wacbzz]

Over on this thread, the topic has come up about flashlights being and not being true to their original form. The specific light in question is the SureFire 6P - though there are many lights that can be and are used in the same way.

The question is whether a SF 6P is still a SF 6P after it has been modded or whether it has simply become a host and is no longer a SF 6P.

A number of posts have been made there talking about both sides. After this post by the OP and then this post though, the discussion has pretty much come to a complete halt (and probably rightfully so as it really isn't the proposed topic of the thread).

After reading the posts concerning the different sides, it is obvious that there are vastly different takes on this topic that I find very interesting and should be continued. I hope this thread will provide an arena for that conversation...

 

[jellydonut]

In my opinion - when the flashlight is bought solely for the purpose of putting a different dropin in it. If it is used for this a Solarforce would do the same job. When the flashlight is bought solely for being an aluminium tube meant to conduct current and hold a module made by some other manufacturer, it's a host.

When dealing with lights as simple as the 6P, the light engine is the only thing that's of any engineering pedigree. The rest is just an aluminium tube, and a simple switch. If the first thing you do is ditch the light engine and insert a Malkoff or an Oveready, they're the ones who should get the credit for the performance and utility of the light. Not the people who had a CNC machine spew out the aluminium tube.:nana:

Outside of the 6P and similar ones, once a light gets things like selector rings and complicated switches, it becomes harder to discount it as soon as the light engine is replaced.

 

[Kraid]

I clicked the other option. I think perhaps when you change out the body itself. I mean, for sake of ease, I generally think of my light as a "6P". But truth is, I've never bought a 6P. I purchased a Leef body from lighthound and (at the time) a Z44 and Z59 from the MP. I was running a Dereelight drop-in then. The parts have changed now, other than the Leef body. And because I run it on an 18650, I usually think of it as my "4P". I'm having a C2 body bored out right now just to have a different option, so when that comes in, I'll probably consider it my "C2". Though it won't really be.

I posed a similar question once about modded knives. Most of us agreed that the "soul" was in the blade and that it remained in tact even if it were reground.

A friend of mine had this to say:
"This is actually an old philosophical question, and there are a few different parables that describe it, one known as "My Fathers Ax," or "The Philosopher's Ax."

To paraphrase, it goes something like, "This is my fathers ax, he gave it to me when I was a boy. I have changed the handle three times, and the head twice. This is my fathers ax.""

-Joseph King of King Knives

 

[tffrost]

I would say that the body "hosts" the light source. Although the body is a 6P it may "host" any number of light sources. For instance the 6P becomes the 6PL when the LED module is added. No longer is it the standard 6P. Upgrade the unit from a P60 to a P61 lamp and it is simply a 6P with it's "intended" upgrade, hence still a 6P. Step out of this standard up grade you now have a 6P "host" regardless of modification.

 

[KiwiMark]

I can't speak for the 6P but for others:
When does a flashlight simply become a host?
When it is made by Maglite and I get my hands on it!
- I have 4 of Mag 2D, 1 of Mag 3D, 2 of Mag 4D and 1 of Mag 6D - not a single one is stock.

For the Surefire 6P I would have thought that anything that changes it more than just cosmetically would make it a modded light and the 6P more a host than a flashlight.

 

[Minjin]

I made my view clear on the other thread but I would add that I think it might be useful to refer to anything that can handle these sized drop-ins as a 6P-type flashlight. The 6P can certainly get the honor of the name because it was the first (I think). If we did that, I think it makes a whole lot more sense to see a top 10 list and have on it a "6P-type" flashlight rather than a Surefire 6P as if a 6P with a P60/P61 is all that good of alight anymore (I'm sure plenty will debate that).

 

[SuperTrouper]

I think to put it simply. A light becomes a host when it's hosting a different light engine than the one it came with from the factory (if it came with one at all)

 

[Xacto]

I voted for the third option, since I consider all my lights still Surefire 6Ps with some having a different light engine. It is still the Surefire bezel, the Surefire tailcap and the Surefire battery tube with the Surefire name, Patent No. etc. on it.

Now if I would buy an oveready body in Ceracote, possibly even a bored one, I would call it an Oveready "based on a SF6P". For me, as long as most parts are stock, it still is a Surefire 6P. Although I do see the point that a different light engine makes a different light, I d rather see the whole light as one product with a name, sometimes just with a different dropin.



Cheers
Thorsten

 

[wyager]

I treat a 6P like any other light in terms of nomenclature- a 2D mag with a malkoff is not just a "2D mag", it's a "2D mag with malkoff dropin". The same goes for the 6P.

 

[wacbzz]

I would really like to hear from the three people that voted for the first option that a 6P is a 6P no matter what is done to it...

 

[glazer1972]

Only the drop-in must change for a 6P to just to be a hos.

 

[JNewell]

I've continued to mull this over since the discussion in the other thread. It's an interesting question, if a little abstract. The answer I keep coming back to is this: as long as the body tube remains, it is what it started as, regardless of changes such as converting a twist-tailcap to a clicke, or changing the illumination type, or the bezel.

I would still say my decade-plus old 6Z is a 6Z, even though it has had (among other parts replacements) multiple tailcap replacements (some of which are different from the original design), a bezel replacement (round/Lexan window to hex/Pyrex window) and now has a Malkoff M61 in it. The only original part is the body tube.

In the same way, my Jeep Cherokee did not stop being a Jeep Cherokee when I replaced, upgraded or installed entirely new components. Similarly, a 1911 does not stop being a 1911 if the barrel, bushing, trigger, hammer, thumb safety, grip safety, mainspring housing are altered or replaced.

I'm not going to say that my view is the only correct view, but I'm not willing to be told that my view is incorrect, either. This is an interesting discussion but it isn't one where there is a single, objectively correct answer.

 

[KiwiMark]

I've continued to mull this over since the discussion in the other thread. It's an interesting question, if a little abstract. The answer I keep coming back to is this: as long as the body tube remains, it is what it started as, regardless of changes such as converting a twist-tailcap to a clicke, or changing the illumination type, or the bezel.

I would still say my decade-plus old 6Z is a 6Z, even though it has had (among other parts replacements) multiple tailcap replacements (some of which are different from the original design), a bezel replacement (round/Lexan window to hex/Pyrex window) and now has a Malkoff M61 in it. The only original part is the body tube.

I'd love to know how you would define a host then.

I have a Maglite 3D - I think of it as a host rather than a Maglite flash light, it has had a few changes:
- Switch replaces with a programmable regulated driver
- bulb replaces with an Osram 6V 30W bulb
- reflector replaces with an aluminium one
- lens replaces with a UCL glass one
- batteries are Li-ion
- tail spring replaced with a shorter one.
It does still have the original body tube, head, bezel & tail cap but instead of <100 Lumen it now outputs >1000 Lumen. The switch operation is different - it now has variable output with the bulb receiving from 3V to 10V regulated.

By your definition my light is still a Maglite 3D - but I consider it drastically different despite it looking like one at first glance. The fact that it outputs over 20x the amount of light IMO pushes it into a different category all together.