Malkoff "Hound Dog"

[etc]

this is a bit OT but does have some relevance.
I found out that the single biggest problem with the Hound Dog is that it's challenging to carry. Versus 6P/9P.
I have to work around a business casual environment so all kinds of holsters, etc are not an option.
It does fit in Vertx side cargo pockets but barely so. The large bezel, well, look at it this way. A little bulk is the price we pay for performance.

You can also add that Vertx pants are made very well, the material and the stitching is just excellent. The various cargo pockets are a nice bonus. I stopped wearing everything else. You can fit the MD3 HD in the side pocket or in the lower cargo pockets.

 

[etc]

That's fantastic. Perhaps this would be good material for the "You just know you're a flashaholic when" thread. You know you're a Malkoff Junkie when you buy special pants to fit your favorite Malkoff device.

I gather that you need these pants for your profession, anyway. But now I'm thinking of purchasing a couple of pairs so I can tote more lights. Ha.

I used to wear normal pants you buy in various big box stores. I've lost a few light when they fell out of the side pockets. When you seat down, the pocket tilts and it just falls out. That was in mid 2000's and the light in question was usually the first gen MiniMag. I once had a Surefire 9P with a Malkoff fall out in a conference room.
That was kind of embarrassing.

 

[INFRNL]

@ETC
I can't remember if you sent me a better way to communicate with you but i sent you a pm in regards to sanyo/Panasonic 2000mah 18500's that fit md bodies without issue, unless you got a body that was not bored to normal dia.

These cells fit my bodies without issue and are protected cells. There are also unprotected versions if thats what you prefer

Md3 is a good alternative if runtime is not critical, but wouldn't an hd 18650 be just as good in a even smaller footprint?

Or if you really need that little extra bulge...bulk, super with either md2 or md3:naughty:

 

[INFRNL]

With my time away, I must be behind the times a touch. I just went to illumn's site and saw the 2000mah 18500's. I might have to pick up a few just for fun. These were not available when i got my sanyo/panny's. I'm guessing that these are the same exact cells but KP puts their label on them.

The Keeppowers are a bit cheaper as well. I'll pick a couple pr up and I will see if there are any differences in size and runtimes.

 

[Modernflame]

With my time away, I must be behind the times a touch. I just went to illumn's site and saw the 2000mah 18500's. I might have to pick up a few just for fun. These were not available when i got my sanyo/panny's. I'm guessing that these are the same exact cells but KP puts their label on them.

The Keeppowers are a bit cheaper as well. I'll pick a couple pr up and I will see if there are any differences in size and runtimes.

Good price, too. I don't own an MD3 (yet), but I've definitely filed this one away.

 

[roger-roger]

With my time away, I must be behind the times a touch. I just went to illumn's site and saw the 2000mah 18500's. I might have to pick up a few just for fun. These were not available when i got my sanyo/panny's. I'm guessing that these are the same exact cells but KP puts their label on them.

The Keeppowers are a bit cheaper as well. I'll pick a couple pr up and I will see if there are any differences in size and runtimes.

What about light intensity--any loss with the MD3 / HD XML-2?

 

[INFRNL]

What about light intensity--any loss with the MD3 / HD XML-2?

I will have to top off some cells and put it on the meter. I'm thinking about a nap, so i will post results here after a bit

 

[roger-roger]

I will have to top off some cells and put it on the meter. I'm thinking about a nap, so i will post results here after a bit

Sounds like you're on the road. No rush.

 

[INFRNL]

Sounds like you're on the road. No rush.

Actually I have been at home for the last week being super lazy and spending time with the family (mainly the little ones)

I lost you for a minute, I was looking for you in the junkie thread until I realized we were working with the HD. Pics to come here in a few (for fun and visual proof)


(Before anyone says anything about my testing device, I can assure you that my custom setup is fairly accurate, and definitely enough for our use) (there is also no mistake, this is actually measuring lumen)
I have some interesting data but in the end I think it is negligible. Also let me know if I need to do something else for what you are after.
Current Hound Dog XM-L2 MD3: fresh [email protected] ea cell; sanyo/panasonic 2000mah

*Peak brightness of approx 1018 lumen
*Then pretty fast drop to approx 1005 lumen, then slow constant gradual drop from here

*After 45sec- 1000 lumen
*5 min- 975 lumen: ended test, ending voltage 4.11v ea cell

MD4: fresh [email protected] ea cell; sanyo/panasonic 3500mah

*Peak brightness of approx 1008 lumen
*then very fast drop to approx 985 lumen, then slow gradual drop from here

*After 1min- 980 lumen
*after 5min- 960 lumen
*after 7.5 min (got a text and forgot to stop the clock) ended test, ending voltage 4.13v ea cell

So for this quick test, there is no noticeable difference between MD3 and MD4 for output. I'm sure MD3 will start dropping more rapidly after a certain point. I can try to continue the test to confirm if needed. Maybe I need to test a different set of 18650's as these clearly drop output faster than the 18500's

 

[INFRNL]

I've decided to continue the test. I forgot to mention this but most people that know me, know that all my lights are of the Neutral variants

MD3: Same cells rested but not topped off(2000mah sanyo/panny). Initial test was inside with ambient temps around 70-72 deg F. this test in garage, ambient temps around 60 deg F and a fan sucking air across head. Running temps around 110-118 deg F during test.
Peak: 1036 lumen(just did a retest because it was forgotten, fresh cells 4.2v ea)
5 min: 986 lumen
10 min: 977 lumen
20 min: 969 lumen
30min-1hr: 966 lumen

Light cut out just a couple minutes after 1 hr. weird thing is I saw lumen jump to 970 just before the light cut off.

MD4: same cells topped off(3500mah panny GA cells): ambient temps around 60 deg F and a fan sucking air across head. Running temps around 110-115 deg F during test.
this time output peaked at 1038 lumen and dropped to 1010 lumen not sure why this changed this time around

5min: 989 lumen
10min: 984 lumen
15min: 979 lumen
20 min: 977 lumen
30min-2hrs: 976 lumen

Light cut off at 2hrs 2 min final output was 979 lumen

Apparently just before the light cuts out it produces just a hair more output before it dies. wouldn't be noticeable to the eye but is definitely evident on a meter.

Hope this helps answer any questions/concerns for those curious. I guess this test wasn't quite apples to apples (since i didn't top off the 18500's) but still applies to the initial 5 min test that there is no noticeable difference between these 18500/18650 cells for output. The eye should not see any difference in the minor variation of output between MD3 and MD4. I believe there needs to be a 25% difference in output for the eye to notice a difference (please correct me if i am wrong on this as I do not recall exactly)


EDIT:
HD 18650 MD2 current version: 18650 GA 3500mah cell
Starting voltage 4.2v, ambient temps 57-58 deg F, fan sucking air across head. Approx running temps 100-110 deg (I forgot to get initial temps but approx halfway through it was around 100deg)
I was busy today and had some distractions as can be seen in time stamps

Peak: 920 lumen
1 min: 902 lumen
5 min: 904 lumen
10 min: 888 lumen
15 min: 867 lumen
20 min: 843 lumen
25 min: 826 lumen
30min: 805 lumen
41min: 737 lumen
45min: 718 lumen
50min: 686 lumen
1hr 10min: 592 lumen
1.25 hrs: 564 lumen
1hr 20min: 539 lumen
1hr 25 min: 509 lumen
1.5 hrs: 472 lumen
1.75hrs: 329 lumen
2hrs: 194 lumen
2.25 hrs: 104 lumen
2 hrs 25min: 73 lumen
2hrs 55min: 23 lumen
3.25hrs: 13 lumen
3.5hrs: 8 lumen

Ended test but this should give you an idea of what a single cell will provide

EDIT 2: MD3/MD4 primaries(streamlight) starting voltage of all cells was 3.28v

MD3 Peak: 1042 lumen
MD4 Peak: 1042 lumen

MD3 on Low, 18500's 4.2v ea cell (test is too long, so i am going to try and keep it to a minimum)
Peak: 66 lumen then instant drop to 65 lumen
5min: 65 lumen
There was a strange drop between 1hr 50 min to 2 hrs 64 lumen@ 1hr 50min to 62 lumen@ 2hrs
3hrs: 59 lumen
4hrs: 57 lumen (@4hr mark, it appears we are now entering a 1 lumen drop per hour)
5hrs: 56 lumen
Ended test at 5 hrs cause it was 2am: cell votage was @3.91v ea continued test @8am
6hrs: 53 lumen
7hrs: 52 lumen
8hrs: 51 lumen
9hrs: 50 lumen
10hrs: 48 lumen
15hrs: 44 lumen
20hrs: 35 lumen
21hrs: 33 lumen
22hrs: 28 lumen
23hrs: 18 lumen
23.25hrs: finally cut off but i did not get a chance to see what final output was
MD4 should yield approx double of this MD3 test on low mode
If 20+ hours is not enough, then we have issues. I will do one last test: MD3 primaries on high mode. and if you are lucky, I might go to lowes and get some surefires to do the MD4 high mode test but I WILL NOT BE DOING ANYMORE LOW MODE TESTS of any sort.

hope this helps those that were curious
MD3 w/streamlight primaries. Starting voltage 3.12v ea cell (so this test may not be as accurate as it should be) Ambient temps: 60 F

Peak: 1021 lumen then immediate drop to 1010 lm
1min: 1003lm
5min: 987lm 105F
10min: 968lm 118-120F
15min: 958lm 126F
20min: Huge drop to 350 then instantly to 250lm
25min: 248lm and starting to climb
30min: 289lm 105F
35min: 332lm 100F
40min: 347lm 97F
45min: 362lm 95F
50min: 372lm
1hr: 388lm 94F
1hr 5min: 400lm
1hr 10min: 417lm
1.25hrs: 469lm 95F
1hr 20min: 530lm and climbing fast 97F
1hr 21min: 630lumen
1hr 22min: 650lm and dropping fast
1hr 25min: 535lm and still dropping fast
1.5hrs: 318lm and still dropping fast
1hr 35min: 154lm
1hr 40min: 90lm
1.75hrs: 58lm 85F
1hr 50min: 33lm 76F
2hrs: 22lm
2hrs 5min: 17lm
2.25hrs: 13lm
2.5hrs: 10lm
2.75hrs: 8lm
3hrs: 6lm
3.5hrs: 5lm
4hrs: 4lm
4.5hrs: 3lm
ended test for the day but cells were not drained.

 

[etc]

Excellent.
What about runtime on low?
On both li-ion and primaries.

The other important thing is, apparently 2x18500 equals one 18650 runtime wise. I knew the former was behind but did not know that much behind.

 

[roger-roger]

The other important thing is, apparently 2x18500 equals one 18650 runtime wise. I knew the former was behind but did not know that much behind.

Interesting.

P.S. Thanks for you work, INFRNL!

 

[INFRNL]

Excellent.
What about runtime on low?
On both li-ion and primaries.

The other important thing is, apparently 2x18500 equals one 18650 runtime wise. I knew the former was behind but did not know that much behind.

I'm not sure if i will have the time to test and I probably do not have enough primaries, but if i get the time, I can at least do the li-ion on low (I think, depending on how long the test takes)

I do not remember the details but i am pretty sure I have done some runtime tests on the HD 18650. Overall runtime will be longer than 2x18500 but as we know there will be a gradual decline in output until it's not feasible to use rather than a cut off.

Interesting.

P.S. Thanks for you work, INFRNL!

Anytime:thumbsup:

 

[etc]

Yes, this is a very important analysis.
1x18650 being lower on lumens but better on runtime is a predictable malkoff pattern.

I am going to guess that 4x123 will be higher on lumens than 3x123. I.e md4 vs md3

 

[INFRNL]

Yes, this is a very important analysis.
1x18650 being lower on lumens but better on runtime is a predictable malkoff pattern.

I am going to guess that 4x123 will be higher on lumens than 3x123. I.e md4 vs md3

I believe there is only approx 100 lumen difference but I see you point.

I could probably do a quick test with primaries to see what the approx differences would be in peak/initial output. It will be rough analysis though as I do not have enough to do separate tests. the cells would have to be shared which would not quite be fair.

As you mentioned and what is typical of malkoff is that 4 cells usually have slightly more output than 3 cells. This is usually fairly easy to see with the eye as well.

will see what I can come up with for you, this may take some time though.

 

[INFRNL]

Yes, this is a very important analysis.
1x18650 being lower on lumens but better on runtime is a predictable malkoff pattern.

I am going to guess that 4x123 will be higher on lumens than 3x123. I.e md4 vs md3

I'm running a test on the hd 18650 for comparison and will post results in last nights post to keep things together.

I am down to 4 good primaries, so i will only be able to give you a rough idea of what peak outputs are for md3 md4. After that i might be able to give you some quick initial results but that's about it.

I'm hoping i can get a rough idea where the lights will level out at

 

[Modernflame]

I'm running a test on the hd 18650 for comparison and will post results in last nights post to keep things together.

I am down to 4 good primaries, so i will only be able to give you a rough idea of what peak outputs are for md3 md4. After that i might be able to give you some quick initial results but that's about it.

I'm hoping i can get a rough idea where the lights will level out at

Your runtime tests on various lights and battery configurations have been a valuable resource to the group, but in this particular case, I wonder if your tests will differ from the runtime/output charts on flashlight guide?

http://flashlightguide.com/2014/04/review-malkoff-hound-dog-v3/

 

[INFRNL]

Your runtime tests on various lights and battery configurations have been a valuable resource to the group, but in this particular case, I wonder if your tests will differ from the runtime/output charts on flashlight guide?

http://flashlightguide.com/2014/04/review-malkoff-hound-dog-v3/

will have to look later, I'm sure i have read it before. I believe I have seen all their reviews on malkoff and elzetta.

I'm doing my first update of HD 18650 but let me know if some of the time stamps should be removed because it will add some length to the post.

I will post then to spend some time with family, then will work on the next test

Post 1170 has all the data, last post of pg 39

@ ETC: unfortunately it looks like I would have to get more primary cells to do the testing. My initial results will be posted on post 1170. There is no difference in Peak output between md3 and md4 primaries but sustained output may be slightly different along with how the light behaves as it continues to run, but I am not sure.

 

[etc]

Please pm me and I will bounce some primaries for the test.

 

[INFRNL]

Please pm me and I will bounce some primaries for the test.

I appreciate the offer, worst case; I will go to lowes and buy some surefires

I honestly do not know if I want to do both primary tests. I will at least do the MD3 test with the cells i have. I let them rest and tried md4 today giving identical peak output as the MD3.

Believe it or not, I am still running the MD3 18500 low mode test, I will not run 18650 low mode test; it will take way way too long. I have over 8hrs into the md3 with minimal loss 15 lumen. I'm eagerly waiting for the cells to cut out. I do not have the time to continually monitor these low mode tests.

will update post 1170 with results and see if I can shorten the post any.