SureFire M6 rechargeable options – SHOOTOUT (Part 2)

[Kestrel]

Roger that, the first 'M6 Shootout' thread was the most memorable part of my introduction to CPF.
IMO it was the gold standard of documenting high performance from 'back in the day'.
I went from 'you folks are crazy' to 'I want to go crazy.'

 

[python]

After I read this post - Shootout 1 & 2 - , I bought a Surefire M6

 

[Brigadier]

Still digging my M6/PhD-M6/LF HO-M3T combo. An excellent blend of output and run time.

 

[Snacks]

nice setup with the phd-m6. I wish that was still for sale or even the mdcod's battey holder.

 

[Dark Laser]

Hi there,

has anyone experimented with a 3x17670 setup running a 6 V 4000 h bulb?

Well, my brother had a few cheap 5 W bulbs ("Heitronic" brand) lying around; so we tested them with 4 LiFePO4 26650 as well as with 3 freshly charged Fenix 2600 18650s. Without soft-start circuit, of course :devil:
To our surprise, the bulbs did not seem to be impressed at all, so we switched them on and off a few times, but still they continued to work.
The color temperature was not too high, either, just a tad "whiter" than the Solarforce L1200 with the same fresh 18650s.
Too bad we can't measure lumens; so we had to rely on our eyes when comparing with different lights.
The setup was definitely brighter than a Wolfeyes 9M (SureFire 9P-ish); and a tad dimmer than a Mag ROP-Hi.

Current draw was about 1,2 A @ 12,2 V under load. A nice overdrive, I'd say ...

So I wonder what better bulbs could do, looking at the rather inconspicious Osram 64410 for example, or 10 W bulbs .

 

[fivemega]

has anyone experimented with a 3x17670 setup running a 6 V 4000 h bulb?

I have tested above setup but with AW's protected cells and 20 watt bulb. It worked really bright and hot. Very close to instaflash.
Since current draw is close to max, other brand protected cells may need double or several click. I won't recommend IMR cells.

 

[Dark Laser]

Sounds good
Thanks for your feedback.
I truly believe that a 20 W bulb will be seriously bright, however, the 5 W was quite impressive as well considering the possible runtime.

 

[vestureofblood]

Great thread. Really just great. All the glory of the super incan days is embodied in the first post. Thanks DM

 

[Blitzertac556]

I finally got an M6 after literally 10 years of lust over them.....so glad I did. Glory to the incandescent days of SF. I wonder if a 8xAA option is possible.....

 

[fivemega]

I wonder if a 8xAA option is possible.....

It is possible but extension tube is necessary and a good low resistance 8AA holder loaded with rechargeable NiMH batteries.
This $1 bulb is excellent choice for 8AA option.

 

[Daniel_sk]

So what are the "best" current available incandescent options for SF M6? Are there any high output options for 2x18650?

- The WA1185 is discounted (or too difficult / too expensive to find online) (3x16650), same for WA1111
- Philips 5761 is cheap and high-output but requires a soft-start which is almost impossible to get (PhD-M6 = unobtainium) (2x18650)
- Lumens Factory M6R - 700 lumens, 3x16650 setup - $25/bulb.
- Lumens Factory EO-M3T - 450 lumens, 2x18650 - $23/bulb
- Tad MN7225 bi-pin is cheap (3.8$) and can be bought in large numbers, it's a 7.2V 2.5A bulb and produces about 400+ lumens. This could be a good 2x18650 setup. I only wish Tad would also offer a higher output version.

 

[Minimoog]

I'd like to know too. I have a boxed M4 and M6 never used as I really do want a rechargeable option. I was on the list for JS's M6R but he stopped making them just short of my pack reserve.

 

[Hank25]

Excellent thread with a ton of great information and content. I recently picked up a used M6 and am looking for a LiIon battery carrier (2x18650 or 3x16650). After searching the forum and this thread it appears these were made by multiple CPF users years ago but I am unable to locate a current open and active sales thread. Does anyone know of a current source or is the WTB thread the best option?

 

[325addict]

There used to be a lot of rechargeable options available for the M6, from 2X 18650 battery holders by Mdocod and Fivemega, 3X 17670 battery holders from Fivemega and a LOT of bulb options, ranging from the drop-in replacements from Lumens Factory to the more customizable options brought to us by Fivemega and Tad Customs, in form of their "MN to bi-pin adapters" requiring one of the many WA (Welch Allyn) bulbs that were available in those days. These have all been dscontinued by WA.

MANY of these options are no longer available now, unfortunately.

If you ever would like to get rid of your M6, just give me a PM. Maybe I would like to buy it from you. I have TONS of gear for the M6, among these dozens and dozens of bulbs, a lot of MN to bi-pin adapters and some 7 battery holders. And quite some original SF lamp assemblies, as well as Lumens Factory lamp assemblies.

I'd like to know too. I have a boxed M4 and M6 never used as I really do want a rechargeable option. I was on the list for JS's M6R but he stopped making them just short of my pack reserve.

 

[Daniel_sk]

Excellent thread with a ton of great information and content. I recently picked up a used M6 and am looking for a LiIon battery carrier (2x18650 or 3x16650). After searching the forum and this thread it appears these were made by multiple CPF users years ago but I am unable to locate a current open and active sales thread. Does anyone know of a current source or is the WTB thread the best option?

CPF user altermann is still making 2x18650 holders if you contact him by PM, these are for protected cells (button top?).
So I have just ordered an SF M6, it cost me an arm and leg in Europe. My plan is to use the 2x18650 adapter because 18650 development is going on and the capacity is still being increased and because they are so easy to buy. 3x16650 adapters are not being made anymore and 16650 isn't also that common compared to 18650 (also maximum capacity of 16650 is around 2500 mAh, 18650 are 3500+ mAh).

Bi-pin bulbs are out of option for me, the adapters are not being made anymore and bulb production basically also stopped (no more WA1111, WA1185, and Tad also stopped making bulbs :shakehead).
Fortunately we still have Mark from Lumens Factory and I hope he will keep making lamp modules for many years to come.

I am deciding between the Lumens Factory IMR-M3T and EO-M3T.
IMR-M3T is a 700 lumens 3.4A lamp module, this requires IMR chemistry cells. Modern IMR cells are close to 3000 mAh capacity, they don't require protection circuit and are quite safe. I guess I could get maybe 45 minutes runtime of something that would come close to the original MN21 output.
EO-M3T is a 450 lumen 2.4A lamp module. This one runs fine on regular 18650, so you get the higher capacity. In theory this will have a much longer runtime compared to the IMR lamp (80 minutes?)
These lamp modules have a 20 hour life.

I think I will pick the IMR-M3T + 2x18650, just because it's an M6 and it should go maximum brightness . But I think the unprotected cells will be too short for the 18650 adapter and I will probably need to use some spacers/magnets. Anybody else running this setup?

 

[LED61]

It went off the board into discoed at $399 retail. I haven´t seen one up for sale these days and wonder how much they go for nowadays.

 

[325addict]

I would go for the EO-M3T and for regular 3500 or 3600mAh high quality li-ion cells, such as the ones by Keeppower. The cells used are "made in Japan" which is quite an assuring thing for quality. Even the HO-M3T is very bright and is my favorite LF lamp assembly for the M6. It draws 2 Amps and will comfortably give you over 90 minutes if runtime with 3600mAh cells, which are available protected too. I have 15+ lamp assemblies for my M6 and the HO-M3T is one of my firm favorites. All bulbs drawing 2~2.5 Amps are very usable. The ones by Tad, the MN20, and also the WA1274 are very good, usable bulbs. And of course the HO-M3T and EO-M3T...

CPF user altermann is still making 2x18650 holders if you contact him by PM, these are for protected cells (button top?).
So I have just ordered an SF M6, it cost me an arm and leg in Europe. My plan is to use the 2x18650 adapter because 18650 development is going on and the capacity is still being increased and because they are so easy to buy. 3x16650 adapters are not being made anymore and 16650 isn't also that common compared to 18650 (also maximum capacity of 16650 is around 2500 mAh, 18650 are 3500+ mAh).

Bi-pin bulbs are out of option for me, the adapters are not being made anymore and bulb production basically also stopped (no more WA1111, WA1185, and Tad also stopped making bulbs :shakehead).
Fortunately we still have Mark from Lumens Factory and I hope he will keep making lamp modules for many years to come.

I am deciding between the Lumens Factory IMR-M3T and EO-M3T.
IMR-M3T is a 700 lumens 3.4A lamp module, this requires IMR chemistry cells. Modern IMR cells are close to 3000 mAh capacity, they don't require protection circuit and are quite safe. I guess I could get maybe 45 minutes runtime of something that would come close to the original MN21 output.
EO-M3T is a 450 lumen 2.4A lamp module. This one runs fine on regular 18650, so you get the higher capacity. In theory this will have a much longer runtime compared to the IMR lamp (80 minutes?)
These lamp modules have a 20 hour life.

I think I will pick the IMR-M3T + 2x18650, just because it's an M6 and it should go maximum brightness . But I think the unprotected cells will be too short for the 18650 adapter and I will probably need to use some spacers/magnets. Anybody else running this setup?

 

[Daniel_sk]

Thanks, actually yesterday I was thinking about this again I came to the same conclusion. Although the M6 is something I can see maybe bringing for a walk in the woods and then using only for short bursts, and in this case runtime will never be an issue... I guess I would get more fun out of the IMR-M3T? Do you keep the M6 with HO-M3T switched on for extended times to make use of the much longer runtime?
I noticed you have a large M6 accessory collection (in an other thread), do you also have the PhD-M6? I am strongly thinking about getting one and there seems to be an opportunity, but I was wondering if all the added complexity (more failure points) and the hassle of 3 batteries instead of 2 more standard 18650 is worth it. I don't have a stash of cheap bi-pin bulbs (WA bulbs are rare, Tad stopped making them), so in the end I would just use some LF bulbs and benefit from soft-start + regulation. But in the end, is this worth it?

 

[ma tumba]

I have both 2x18650 adapter and the phd thing. Since the runtime sucks anyway I use the phd just because its a great stuff.

Now the right choice of a bulb is more complicated. A 500+ lm light can be had in a much more practical d26 form factor, so an M6 deserves something better. From experience I also know that a 20W (~600lm) bulb is the minimum that would encourage me to carry such a big light.

So I do think that it is going to be a 3x 3.7v config: either with a 1185 or 1909.

The 1185 can be driven by the phd-m6, but it will be not regulated

 

[Daniel_sk]

Thanks for the input. Did you maybe also try LF IMR-M3T? This is a 2 cell bulb but requires a high-drain 18650 (with PCB protection 10A+) or IMR/INR battery. Basically at this 3.4A the capacity of 3500 mAh sags down to the same value as lower capacity modern IMR 3000mAh (e.g. some Vapcell). I wonder how the runtime would compare to 3x 16650 with PhD-M6, the highest capacity Keepower are 2500 mAh but these are 4.3V cells, so you need to charge them to 4.3V with a charge that supports it, otherwise you get only 2000mAh. Also this is a bit offtopic but I think that Keeppower PCB protection will not allow to charge over 4.2, so you never achieve full capacity - but there are other cells based on the same 16650 model that allow you to go to 4.3V.