The Official Malkoff Junkie thread - Part 2

[tobrien]

I have a question regarding whether to buy the neutral (5000K) Hound Dog or the cool (6200K) HD. I see the OTF lumen differences are about 50-100 lumens, so not really that huge of a difference.

My job is doing patrolling at night for campus police (I'm not a mandated officer, but I simply oversee the student division, so I'm basically like the highest-up student I suppose). Would I benefit more from a neutral or cool white Hound Dog if I want distance spotting? I don't think I've ever read whether or not neutral versus cool gets better lux (lux is what basically concerns how far the beam projects, right?) if we're talking the exact same LED die size and reflector.

I'm pretty certain I should opt to get the cool white, but let's say I'm shining a Hound Dog-projected beam into some trees and I want to be able to tell if people are in there. Would differences in objects (e.g.: being able to tell if I'm seeing a person) be more pronounced with CW or NW?

I realize NW has better color rendering typically, but would using neutral tints make a person I'm trying to spot more likely to blend in with the scene if the color rendering is good?

thoughts?

 

[twl]

I have a question regarding whether to buy the neutral (5000K) Hound Dog or the cool (6200K) HD. I see the OTF lumen differences are about 50-100 lumens, so not really that huge of a difference.

My job is doing patrolling at night for campus police (I'm not a mandated officer, but I simply oversee the student division, so I'm basically like the highest-up student I suppose). Would I benefit more from a neutral or cool white Hound Dog if I want distance spotting? I don't think I've ever read whether or not neutral versus cool gets better lux (lux is what basically concerns how far the beam projects, right?) if we're talking the exact same LED die size and reflector.

I'm pretty certain I should opt to get the cool white, but let's say I'm shining a Hound Dog-projected beam into some trees and I want to be able to tell if people are in there. Would differences in objects (e.g.: being able to tell if I'm seeing a person) be more pronounced with CW or NW?

I realize NW has better color rendering typically, but would using neutral tints make a person I'm trying to spot more likely to blend in with the scene if the color rendering is good?

thoughts?

Cool does everything better, except possibly color rendering. More lumens and lux, so more light and more throw. Maybe it's only a little in this case, but it's there.
And if the neutral emitter is not a hi-cri, or doesn't have a higher cri rating than the cool one, then it won't even do colors better.

99.9% of the "tint snobbery" comes from personal preference and what they like might not be what you like. It's not "more accurate". It's just "different" . If you like that kind of "different" then it's available.

 

[Shawnda6]

I appreciate, cause I found exactly what I was looking for. You have ended my 4 day long hunt! God Bless you man. Have a great day. Bye

 

[novice]

I have no personal experience in this, but there was a post here on CPF several years ago (I don't know how to find it) in which an LEO was looking for a suspect in a wooded area, and found nothing on the first pass through, but swapped his/her led light for a warmer light (probably an incan), made another pass, and picked up a visual on something sticking out from behind a tree, and got the suspect on the second pass. Whether a 'warm', 'neutral', or 'HCRI' is best for this kind of activity at night, I can't say.

 

[fresh eddie fresh]

I find warmer lights much better in snow, too... cool white light on cool white snow is overwhelming at times!

 

[BenChiew]

I find warmer lights much better in snow, too... cool white light on cool white snow is overwhelming at times!

Warner light is also better in the rain. Cool white is reflective. You can see the water shooting past.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

I can't believe this (I'm still testing) but it seems like the low draw M61LL runs LOOOONGER on direct drive using two AA batteries vs a 3400 Lithium!

... anyone else? Will confirm this a little later but just wanted to throw this out there early on. It's wierd because this follows up on on a similar result testing a PAK-LITE 9V on Alkaline vs Lithiums. The Alkaline persevered.

 

[cerbie]

I can't believe this (I'm still testing) but it seems like the low draw M61LL runs LOOOONGER on direct drive using two AA batteries vs a 3400 Lithium!

... anyone else? Will confirm this a little later but just wanted to throw this out there early on. It's wierd because this follows up on on a similar result testing a PAK-LITE 9V on Alkaline vs Lithiums. The Alkaline persevered.

For direct drive, that makes sense. The current draw increases with Vf, and in a non-linear fashion. 2.4V to 3V is likely to draw much more than 25% more current.

 

[ToNIX]

I have no personal experience in this, but there was a post here on CPF several years ago (I don't know how to find it) in which an LEO was looking for a suspect in a wooded area, and found nothing on the first pass through, but swapped his/her led light for a warmer light (probably an incan), made another pass, and picked up a visual on something sticking out from behind a tree, and got the suspect on the second pass. Whether a 'warm', 'neutral', or 'HCRI' is best for this kind of activity at night, I can't say.

This. As a LEO myself, go neutral. Seeing something because you see it right, with the right colors, could save your life.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

For direct drive, that makes sense. The current draw increases with Vf, and in a non-linear fashion. 2.4V to 3V is likely to draw much more than 25% more current.

I vaguely remember testing the drop in (actually its an M61WLL) yesterday using a Panasonic 3400mAh unprotected and let it draw down to 2.9V. Took about 6 hours to draw down to approx 10% of its full 70 lumens output. Direct drive with a fresh pair of AA's appears to be 70 lumens as well.

Today I'm testing two AA's. Started at 7:00AM. 10 hours on and we're only at 50% of its full output.

What I can't confirm is if my 3400 lithium from yesterday was originally charged or not. I'm sure it was over 70% charged, I rotate often. So I'm still going to have to retest this later on and with a new battery. But suspicious none the less.

From what I can recall I plotted some lines:

This chart is arbitrary and estimated, but it seems like this is what's happening.

 

[tobrien]

thank you all very much for the cool vs. white feedback

however, it looks like they removed the neutral HD from the listing today. cool it is I suppose

 

[Grizzman]

The neutral was listed as a limited time offering. I'm surprised they lasted this long. I sure do like mine.

Grizz

 

[Glock 22]

yes sir, if y'all want I can take a quick beamshot with my iPod touch or Windows Phone. I realize it's not much but hopefully I can correct the photos to show what I see.

anyone interested in possibly CPF's first M91AW XM-L2 beamshot?

p.s: I keep a spreadsheet for my P60 modules (specs, output, voltage requirements, etc.) and now since having received an XM-L2 M91AW, my spreadsheet is wrong concerning this new M91AW. does anyone have an idea on how many OTF lumens this M91AW (XM-L2, ~4500K) might be pumping out?

I'd like to see a beamshot to compair the tint to my older M91AW if you don't mind.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

M61WLL is now 17 hours in running direct drive using the two cheapo Kirkland AA alkalines. It's currently about 40% of maximum output and still going. The Panasonic 3400mAh 18650 lithium drew down to about 10% output in SIX!

Once the dropin's output draws down to 10% I'm going to test a new and freshly charged Panasonic 3400 to eliminate any doubt.

Currently (the diffuser in each pic is slightly overexposed, but the surrounding exposure is very close.)

With new AA's

Currently

With new AA's

Here's a baseline pic using a torchiere lamp and a single 15W soft white incandescent for tint comparisons.

I can't wait to test run times with Sanyo XX Enloops

 

[cerbie]

From what I can recall I plotted some lines:

This chart is arbitrary and estimated, but it seems like this is what's happening.

Once in DD, the alkaline line will be more of a concave curve, somewhat the opposite of what you drew for the Lithium-Ion, but much shallower, getting flatter as it gets dimmer. The higher effective resistance the circuitry presents, the lower the peak output, but longer the tail.

Arbitrarily, if an LED pulls 50mA at 2.5V, as the batteries lose charge and sag, they go down to 2.4V, it might pull 40mA, then to 2.35V, and 30mA, then to 2.3V for 20mA, 2.25V for 10mA, and so on. Those numbers aren't accurate for any actual LED, but every emitter follows a voltage v. current curve like that, where typically somewhere between 1.5-2.2V, it won't turn on, but then by around 3-3.5V, it's pulling a Watt. The load on the alkalines drops as its voltage sags and internal resistance increases, more-so than if it was driving a simple resistor.

NIMH will surely outshine the alkalines, but not last nearly as long.

 

[RI Chevy]

A while ago, I did the same informal type of test with my M61LLL. It ran for a few days with 2-AA Alkalines in my 9P. I stopped the test for fear that the batteries would leak. That setup does make for a real nice "moonlight" light. I tested the cells, and they were both at .8v each. They could have gone a little more. It is a great setup to "drain" any used AA cells that you have lying around.

 

[Glock 22]

A little off topic but a little ways back I did a runtime with a M61WLLL on an 18650 3100 mAh and I got 29.5 hours before it started dimming, I thought that was pretty impressive.

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

I got 17 hours off a 18650 with my old M61WLL.

 

[BenChiew]

I didn't realise that a m61 (LL Variant) can be powered with 2AAs.

 

[tobrien]

I'd like to see a beamshot to compair the tint to my older M91AW if you don't mind.

i don't mind at all! I'll try and take a good beamshot tonight. it's a phenomenal drop-in IMO. lights up everything around you pretty much