The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

[cnjl3]

If you are not able to rebuild your JS pack then just get yourself some MN15's and use with the stock M6 battery holder. It really shines! Yeah, it's not the MN21 but it sure beats a dead M6.

 

[js]

Sorry to double post it up, but this is news. Surefire IS warranty covering the MN-15 in the M6 as of last week. I got an RMA and am getting a free replacement MN-15 for the M6.. In fact, the rep said that they know most people are having pretty good luck with the MN-15 in the M6. A new lamp assembly for me, only cost is sending the old, burned out MN-15 back to them.
This is a case where honesty paid off and Surefire customer service is great.

Wow! This is awesome! I know this post from batman is two years old, but I missed it when it was posted and haven't been back to this thread until just recently. I will edit the first post to reflect this new (to me) info.

cy,

Sorry to hear about your M6-R pack. Sadly, it's the NiMH batteries. Unless you go with the low-self discharge kind, like the eneloop cells, they die from age and sitting around, unless cycled regularly. And the M6-R pack is even worse because the LVR3I regulator is always drawing a small current, so it pretty much doubles the self-discharge rate. If you disassemble your pack, you can cut out the LVR3I regulator and sell it on modders B/S/T. I sold some a couple years ago here: FS: LVR3I PWM regulators. I did not, in that thread, reference wquiles thread on how to change the voltage, but I should have: LVR3I change from 6.8 to 7.5 volts. This would allow people to change the voltage setpoint for different bulbs other than the ones I mentioned in my FS thread.

It's really kind of depressing, honestly. All my stuff. Everything except for the regulated TigerLights I made with the 8 cell AA Sanyo Eneloop packs. All of it is now dead, gone, buried, lost, thrown away. Dozens and dozens of battery packs made from NiMH cells. All dead. Meanwhile, McGizmo lights never die and are collected, hoarded, and sold again on B/S/T and will be for decades to come, probably. *sigh* Not that I am envious at all! LOL! I just regret not designing around a different chemistry. Ah well, probably wasn't an option back when I did all my stuff. But, of all of it, the M6-R packs are the most painful to think about. They took so much work to build. And they're all dead. Most of them died within the first couple years after I made them, I'm sure.

Anyway . . .

CR123A's on the other hand, being Lithium primaries, can sit around for a decade and still be good to go!

And so my SF M6 sits on my kitchen counter next to my microwave, at the ready. I rarely use it, but when I need an outdoor light with throw, it's my go to light. Or if I go into the woods at night, it's my go to light.

And what do I run in it? Why the MN15 of course! I did go back to the MN20 for a bit, just because I figured that since I only used it so rarely that I might as well have more output, but then I put the MN15 back in recently and once again decided that it was more than enough light, the same throw, and more than double the run time. So I kept it in.

I still love this setup. I know there are super bright LED lights now. In fact, I borrowed a Fenix TK35 a couple weeks ago from a co-worker, and I went out with both it and the M6/MN15 combo, and the M6 threw just as far or even farther despite being seriously outclassed in the lumens department. More importantly, in fog and rain, you have a lot less light coming back at your eyes. And even when not in fog and rain--when out in the woods--I always find--and it is just a personal preference thing--but for me personally, I always find that less is more. I like that the M6/MN15 combo is "only" 200 lumens. And I rarely run it constant on. I usually flash it to see stuff farther afield. And it doesn't have a ton of spill or a wide beam to reflect back at me and constrict my pupils. This light, in combination with something like an A2 or (in my case) a McGizmo LunaSol 20 which has a low level flood beam, is my choice for walking in the dark in the woods and fields and trails. Or often, especially if I know the path, I walk in the complete dark and only flash the M6 when needed.

Of course, there are many many LED lights to chose from, and most have a choice of output levels. The TK35, in fact, has four levels. So if you only want a little light, no problem. So, I understand that this setup may seem like a very poor choice to many people. But, still, for me, for outdoor use, I prefer either an incandescent or one of the High CRI Nichia LED's. The Haiku is great outdoors. Except that it can't touch the M6 in the throw department! LOL!

Anyway, just thought I'd post here for all the reasons mentioned, but mostly to say that I still love this setup and still use it.

 

[Kestrel]

[...] Anyway, just thought I'd post here for all the reasons mentioned, but mostly to say that I still love this setup and still use it.

Thanks for the update, js.

I think this is still an imporant thread for the M6'ers out there, and I still reference it when it could be helpful.
Like this M6'er that recently changed his mind about selling what he thought was an unrelated MN15 when I pointed them to this thread. :thumbsup:

Surefire MN15 turbohead bulb. It was used for maybe 10 minutes total (at most) and I have the original packaging and so on for it. This is intended to be used in M3T setups, but you can use it in an M4 with two 17670 cells, or an M3T powered by two 17500s AFAIK (non-IMR?). - $20

Just a FYI, the MN15 is a phenomenally useful bulb for the SF M6, and perhaps one of the most efficient incan configurations ever made due to operating on two stacks of 3xCR123's in parallel:
The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours

holy cow! Kestrel you are the man as usual! I'll have to keep this MN15 now haha! thank you so much, I honesty didn't know about that config and it never occurred to me (it should've been something I realized on my own before given the M6's battery carrier versus how an M3 is set up)
thanks man!
edit: MN15 withdrawn till further notice

 

[kelmo]

I still use my X-LOLA M6. In fact my spares carrier sports an MN15 as well. It's ready to go in my torso pack even as I write. My 1st real experience with this setup was in a corn maze many moons ago. I may have posted that in this thread somewhere! Used it for about two hours that night. If you can find one, get a John Willis SOE holster for it!

 

[skillet]

Still the best Incan setup here at the Berry Household. Sure, I've got brighter in LED and a giant HID but the warm glow of that MN15 melts the heart and pleases the eyes!!

 

[js]

Wow! Thanks so much everyone for your posts here! I too love this setup so much that I have a spare MN15 on hand and at the ready. I think I will buy the spares carrier, actually, to really have a spare MN15 (and batteries) at the ready. Have to put in an order to SureFire anyway.

Kestrel, that's very cool indeed!

I'm so thrilled that others find this setup as great as I do. I only just recently noticed that this thread has over 46,000 views at this point! When I discovered this setup and posted about it, I never figured that it would get the kind of reception that it has gotten! I figured not many people would have my weird like of a lower output option for the M6! LOL! So glad to be wrong on that one, though!

Thanks again everyone!

 

[AnAppleSnail]

I am an LED junkie, but I have started playing with low-output incandescent lights here and there. I didn't have the budget for an M6, but you make it sound awfully nice.

JS, I've been reading some of your phenomenal threads from the start of the LED age. Wow, what a ride. Thank you for sharing what you find!

 

[1pt21]

I'm just a little confused about all that you wrote in the 1st post, but at the very bottom state: "However, do not run the MN16 in the M6. The MN16 is NOT underdriven on a single stack of three 123's, so two parallel stacks will push it too hard, and it might possibly flash at start-up, or have a much foreshortened life."

Can you explain? I'm sure I'm misunderstanding something is all..

Also is this powered by the stock battery holder with 6x CR123's?

Thanks for any info!!

 

[js]

I'm just a little confused about all that you wrote in the 1st post, but at the very bottom state: "However, do not run the MN16 in the M6. The MN16 is NOT underdriven on a single stack of three 123's, so two parallel stacks will push it too hard, and it might possibly flash at start-up, or have a much foreshortened life."

Can you explain? I'm sure I'm misunderstanding something is all..

Also is this powered by the stock battery holder with 6x CR123's?

Thanks for any info!!

1pt21,

First, yes, definitely, this all assumes that the MB20 battery holder is loaded with six CR123A primarily Li-Mn-O2 batteries.

Second, I'm not sure what to explain or what your question is--so please feel free to ask again in different words if I don't address your confusion--but here's the deal in terms of the MN15 and MN16.

The MN15 is the low output lamp assembly (LOLA) for the SF M3T, and the MN16 is the high output lamp assembly (HOLA). The M3T uses a single stack of three CR123A batteries. It is thus nominally a 9 volt light.

Now, the M6 MB20 battery holder takes the six CR123A's and electrically connects them so that there are two parallel stacks of three CR123A batteries. Thus it is also nominally a 9 volt light, but each stack of CR123A's only has to deliver half of the current demanded by the lamp. The two stacks share the load, in other words.

The MN15 is nominally a 125 lumen lamp in the M3T, which runs for nominally an hour (if I remember correctly) on the single stack of three CR123A's.

The MN16 is nominally a 250 lumen lamp in the M3T, which runs for nominally 20 minutes on the single stack of three CR123A's.

Now, when you go from a single stack to a double stack, you at least double the runtime (and it turns out you more than double it), and, more importantly you will deliver a higher voltage to the lamp. This is because the batteries sag under load (current). The greater the load, the more they sag (lower voltage). The less the load, on the other hand, the less they sag (higher voltage).

So, when running the MN15 in the M6, you will be driving it harder than in the M3T. This, however, is very good, since it is a bit under-driven in the M3T. So in the M6 it is just a bit over driven, making it nice and white and increasing the output noticeably. This was exactly my hope when I tried this combo, and I only tried it because I clearly noticed that it was a bit too under-driven in the M3T.

However . . . the MN16, on the other hand, is not under-driven in stock configuration (i.e. in the M3T). So if you run it in the M6, it will be more than just a bit over-driven. It will be a lot over-driven. So you don't want to do this!

And, plus, why would you? The MN20 is nominally the same brightness as the MN16, and it is precisely designed to work in the M6. So you'd use that.

I just wanted to warn people that you need to be very careful when putting lamps into different lights than they were intended for! LOL! It can go horribly wrong. Poof. $25 down the drain in a millisecond. Or worse. An explosion inside the head of your light. So, even though the M3T and M6 are both nominally 9 volt lights, their lamp assemblies are not interchangeable.

Except for the happy accident of the MN15! Which is why I posted about it here and why I was so excited about it.

Clear?

 

[js]

I am an LED junkie, but I have started playing with low-output incandescent lights here and there. I didn't have the budget for an M6, but you make it sound awfully nice.

JS, I've been reading some of your phenomenal threads from the start of the LED age. Wow, what a ride. Thank you for sharing what you find!

Thanks! I don't know how much a used M6 is now on B/S/T, but I imagine the price is significantly down from what it was even two years ago. Still probably not exactly cheap, though! LOL! And I don't know how often they show up for sale. But might be worth keeping an eye out for one if you're interested and the price is low enough.

 

[1pt21]

Thank you for that thorough explanation!

I understand completely now. Looks like I'm ordering a new bulb to add to my M6 array...


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums

 

[stienke]

Great thread , I use a LF M3T-HO bulb in my M6 for some years now and it works perfect , nice round spot and a white beam.
I think it's almost the same as with a MN15.

GJR:wave:

 

[js]

Great thread , I use a LF M3T-HO bulb in my M6 for some years now and it works perfect , nice round spot and a white beam.
I think it's almost the same as with a MN15.

GJR:wave:

stienke,

I just looked that lamp up on the LF webstore and this is what they say:

HO-M3T High Output 9V, 380 Lumens High Output Lamp Assembly
(For 3 x CR123A or 2 x 3.7V Rechargeable Battery, M Series Flashlights)

-High Output Ultra High Pressure Xenon Lamp (380 Lumens)
-Highest Achievable Colour Temperature (3325K)
-Unique Filament Design
-Precision Machined Aluminum Lamp Assembly
-Every Lamp Assembly is Pre-Focused for the Ultimate Spot
-Compatible with all Flashlights that use the M Series Xenon Lamp Assemblies.


Compatible with:

SurefireR
M3 using 3 x CR123A
M3 using 2 x 3.7V Rechargeable

Runtime (CR123A): ~40 min

The bit in bold is what worries me. I think you may have just been lucky (at least so far) with your particular lamp, because if it is running at 3325K in the M3T on a single stack of 3 123's, then it will be driven significantly harder on two parallel stacks of 3 123's. I think there's serious risk of insta-flash or other failure mode, in general, if people run this lamp in the M6.

Plus, it is also in between the 60 min runtime (in M3T) of the MN15 and 20 minute runtime of the MN16, and so wouldn't exhibit as much of a nice flat (relatively) discharge curve in the M6 as the MN15 does. It'd probably have something on the order of 90-100 minutes of runtime instead of 150 minutes. Of course, it'd certainly be brighter. While it lasted.

And finally, if the spot is round, then it means it doesn't throw as far as the MN15. In order to get the most throw out of a transverse filament lamp (which all of the SF and LF lamps are) then you must have an oval hot spot.

This is fine, of course! Throw isn't everything! And the MN15 beam is tight, tight, tight. So I'm not knocking a nice round spot or anything. Just pointing out that you will lose some throw this way.

 

[stienke]

Maybe I'm a lucky guy indeed , but I see it can run on two RCR's and I thought two stacks of CR123's would not give a problem because the underload is under 8.4V I think.
For runtime the MN15 is a winner and for throw I can't see much different by the naked eye (52 years old!!,hahaha) , I use the LF bulb because the MN15 is hard to find here in Europe and very expensive , I know the quality of Surefire bulbs are great and the LF bulb gets a little black within a few hours but overall they are not bad at all.
I have some spare reflectors so if the bulb explodes and mess up my reflector I can change it and ready to go , but so far so good.

 

[js]

stienke,

Mmmm. Right. Maybe that high CCT over-drive is for two rechargeable cells and the primaries have less voltage? I could look into it, but it's kind of moot. If you've had good luck with this arrangement, perhaps others will as well, and since you say the MN15 is a lot more expensive and harder to find, there's obviously good reason to go for it.

Thanks for the info!

Everyone,

I realized that my initial post was none to clear on my reasoning for why the MN15 might be perfect in the M6 since it was underwhelming in the M3T. I added that info, plus a couple pictures and a digression or two.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

When I fire up my M6 with the MN15, I use one of mdcod's 2x18650 battery packs. Using bounce with a light meter and comparing it to other incan lights I own, I know that it at least reaches 200 beautiful lumens. Thanks js for revitalizing this thread. :thumbsup:

Bill

 

[1pt21]

When I fire up my M6 with the MN15, I use one of mdcod's 2x18650 battery packs. Using bounce with a light meter and comparing it to other incan lights I own, I know that it at least reaches 200 beautiful lumens. Thanks js for revitalizing this thread. :thumbsup:

Bill

Even better now that I know I can run this bulb on one of my rechargeable packs as well!! :twothumbs

LOVE seeing old threads like this revived, they're the root of CPF indeed! I have a bunch of bulbs for my M6 and this one certainly would have been overlooked if not for this thread honestly...

 

[OscarTheDog]

I stumbled on this thread the other day so i went out and bought an MN15 received it today now i am waiting for darkness. So Bill your saying i can also run this bulb with this mdcod's 2x18650 battery packs. Dang i may need to get a backup MN15

 

[skillet]

Bill your saying i can also run this bulb with this mdcod's 2x18650 battery packs. Dang i may need to get a backup MN15

That is exactly what he is saying!! I keep mine loaded just like that with primaries for backup when heading out to the creek/river/lake.

 

[Brigadier]

I stumbled on this thread the other day so i went out and bought an MN15 received it today now i am waiting for darkness. So Bill your saying i can also run this bulb with this mdcod's 2x18650 battery packs. Dang i may need to get a backup MN15

I run my M6 with an MN15 powered by a Phd-M6, with a loaded MB20 ready to go as reserve.