how many mpg do you get?

[orbital]

+

Premium w/o ethanol has been $.80~.90 more than regular this past year, far greater discrepancy than a few years ago.
Just today; a bill introduced would end formulated (oxygenated) gas south of me.

Will people in Milwaukee see gas prices go down if this bill passes___ NOPE.

 

[moldyoldy]

+

Mazda Skyactiv-X coming in 2019,, diesel mpg on unleaded

compression-ignition

I am not a motorhead, but this technology seemed interesting.
here is a report from Car and Driver magazine.

 

[moldyoldy]

and the Mercedes Smart Fortwo seems to be having difficulties with engine fires.
an updated report is here.

My old friends near Stuttgart drive a Smart Fortwo for years with no problems.
Their oldest son performs the maintenance.
fuel mileage - liters/100KM - are not great, but it only is driven in the city.

 

[moldyoldy]

regarding electric vehicles, more specifically electric race cars, here is a nifty quote from Car and Driver. so much for 'quiet electric cars':

"Electric race cars sound like a guy sharpening a dull switchblade in an automatic knife sharpener while riding a high-speed escalator. It is not a sound you ever want to hear from a complex mechanical device. But I'm getting over it....."

The author made no comment about equivalent fuel mileage. check here for the full report.

 

[Bdm82]

and the Mercedes Smart Fortwo seems to be having difficulties with engine fires.
an updated report is here.

My old friends near Stuttgart drive a Smart Fortwo for years with no problems.
Their oldest son performs the maintenance.
fuel mileage - liters/100KM - are not great, but it only is driven in the city.

The Porsche GT3s had engine fires as well... but I'd still take one.

 

[idleprocess]

the salesman that sold 3 Subarus into my family told me that his dealership encourages all of their salesmen to drive each of the Subaru models for a while as a demo vehicle. so, the time came for him to try out the Subaru WRX STI 2.5L Turbo 6spd manual. he made it about a mile down the mixed-speed highway, turned around and drove back to the dealership. His words: "that Auto was simply too hot". His personal Auto is an Impreza....

I find that the 2.0T variant is somewhat twitchy at times but manageable. It has 80% of the displacement of the 2.5T in the STI but more like ~89% of the performance. It achieves markedly better fuel economy (I've seen 34 MPG on urban highways) and tolerates regular unleaded gas better. More importantly it was more some ten grand cheaper and missing the STI's shopping cart handle.

As for electric vehicles, I looked at them more than once in the US and Germany. Even if the rather short range is adequate for the daily drive, in my view the primary deficit of all electric vehicles are the widely disparate charging methods and connection requirements, charge time notwithstanding. Charging needs to be at/near your residence since charging on the road is nearly unavailable because of incompatible charging connections and methods of payment in Europe. I read many (European) driver tales of wasting serious time driving from location to location attempting to find a compatible charging hookup and a payment method that they could use. no, it is not a case of slide a credit card thru a slot and plug in. major problems with charging any electric Auto in Europe. Not sure if charging electric Autos away from 'home' in the US is really any better. A physician told me that there was a single Auto charging post at the hospital he worked at and the same vehicle was always hooked up. my bottom line: hybrid is OK, all electric is not. On the other hand, from what I hear/read, many hybrid Autos in the US do not really obtain better 'fuel' mileage than a normally aspirated Auto w/o a battery pack. The 'hybrid' aspect simply allows a larger vehicle to be accelerated faster.....

For the US market, This was an issue last go-round ~15 years ago with 3 competing standards - AVCON, Small and Large Paddle Inductive. There are at least 3 standards I'm aware of today - J1772, CHAdeMO, and Tesla's proprietary standard. But unlike the CA compliancemobiles of the oughties where there were a lot of charge-control electronics were inexplicably in the chargers themselves, modern standards are pretty much just mechanical/electrical interconnect devices that communicate to the car what they're delivering and restrict or cut off power if the vehicle draws too much. As such, Tesla will supply converter cable sets for a reasonable price that handle the mechanical and communications differences - the car can take pretty much whatever AC or DC you throw at it otherwise. I gather that combo J1772/CHAdeMO public chargers are commonplace now. Not sure what the situation is like in Europe, mind you.

I expect 300 miles' range to be commonplace within a few years at a reasonable price - the price of lithium cells has dropped by a factor of 4 in the few years I've been following them with simultaneous marked improvements to energy density, power density, and cycle life.

The prime market for electric autos right now is homeowners or those with access to private parking. But the public charging situation is changing rapidly. Even here in a traditional oil state such as Texas I see public EV chargers a surprising number of places. Suspect the situation is even better on the coastal states where they're more enthusiastic about them.

 

[StarHalo]

missing the STI's shopping cart handle.

The STi Limited deletes the wing and decals, but yeah.

Suspect the situation is even better on the coastal states where they're more enthusiastic about them.

Lots more charging stations, and they're all still full; electrics are very common here, there's a Tesla X and a Fiat 500e just in my neighborhood alone, some dude in town actually owns a Fisker Karma..

 

[idleprocess]

Lots more charging stations, and they're all still full; electrics are very common here, there's a Tesla X and a Fiat 500e just in my neighborhood alone, some dude in town actually owns a Fisker Karma..

I ceased being able to track individual Model S's a few years ago. Leafs and Volts are almost background noise now. See a few BMW i3's and Model X's as well and a Bolt or two has appeared at my office. Dallas surely isn't hardcore red country, but it's hardly blueville so the veritable explosion of these vehicles is a bit curious.

The use case for BEVs is still heavily tilted towards home charging or any other situation where one can assure access to a charger long enough to charge for the next 24 hours.

 

[idleprocess]

i've done better, we had a long discussion on Hyundai forum about it. yes you are correct hypermiling is the term. however imo, it is just a fancy word for tailgating, and being a danger on the road.

The last 2-3 hours of an 18 hour road trip in the dead of the night I engaged in this sketchy process because I wanted the trip to end and preferred to avoid a final fuel stop. Followed an 18 wheeler at about 10m and watched the folks' Forrester register some nonsense like ~40MPG every 5 minutes on it's realtime MPG bar graph as we got dragged along in the slipstream at a steady 75MPH.

I will not claim that it was a good plan, but it was an interesting demonstration of the effect.

 

[raggie33]

The last 2-3 hours of an 18 hour road trip in the dead of the night I engaged in this sketchy process because I wanted the trip to end and preferred to avoid a final fuel stop. Followed an 18 wheeler at about 10m and watched the folks' Forrester register some nonsense like ~40MPG every 5 minutes on it's realtime MPG bar graph as we got dragged along in the slipstream at a steady 75MPH.

I will not claim that it was a good plan, but it was an interesting demonstration of the effect.

have yoo tried to cover the hood in mayo

 

[StarHalo]

have yoo tried to cover the hood in mayo

Fluids add resistance; fun fact about mayo though, you can use it to remove the gummy adhesive strip residue left on your windows from the dealer sticker.

 

[firsttothescene]

'94 Toyota tercel. 287,000 miles.... still gets 45+ mpg on the highway and 40 city

 

[raggie33]

Fluids add resistance; fun fact about mayo though, you can use it to remove the gummy adhesive strip residue left on your windows from the dealer sticker.

it also great to cover chicken
with b4 cooking

 

[Winnowill1984]

In my 2009 Altima about 28 on the highway. In my 2007 Malibu about 30. Both have 4 cylinders. The Altima has a bit bigger one and will run circles around my Malibu.

 

[moldyoldy]

I have long been interested in MPG and how to drive to achieve higher MPG. Appropriate coasting is still the best method. no 'drafting' on the highway. I have 2 long-distance trucker relatives and they pungently expressed their opinion about this practice.

I am nominally satisfied with my Outback at 40-41MPG Highway, but then I know drivers with the first Honda Insight (2 seats) at 60-70MPG.... I looked at EVs both in Germany and the US, but EV prices are unreal, normally well above an equivalent $30K. Winter in the northern MidWest exacts a serious energy penalty from any EV! Less so in the Nürnberg area. Hence I gave up after seriously looking at the Gen 1 Prius vehicles, Chevrolet Volts and Bolts notwithstanding. Any Tesla was totally out of my $$ range.

So with that background, this thread provoked me to take the opportunity to check out any Mall of America electric vehicle charging stations. I found two (2) EV charging stations on the 4th level of the huge West parking garage. they both offered a J1772 electrical connection at 120VAC. maybe there was also a DC connection, but I could not remove the charging plug. Payment only via a Chargepoint account - you need your Chargepoint card, or a mobile Chargepoint app, etc. cost? $1/minute or $0.39/KWH. A dollar a minute at 120VAC at about 16A into that size of battery? Aua!

I live in an apt in Wisconsin - no EV charging reasonable there. If I drive in to the Twin Cities area, I typically put on 100 miles. which is likely a deep-discharge for a pure EV battery, and thereby shorter life. Furthermore, I normally purchase an Auto for 10 years plus, or around 200K miles. no pure EV for me for the next several years, no matter what the supposed MPG is! Hybrid or pure EVs need to mature a lot and the EV purchase price needs to drop significantly before I could possibly be interested.

 

[StarHalo]

The drafting thing doesn't require tailgating; the effect diminishes over many car lengths, and you can choose whatever distance you're comfortable with knowing you're still upping your MPG. The key is finding a tall vehicle with low clearance, like a city bus, RV, or race trailer - following 2-3 car lengths away will still give you a notable mileage bump thanks to all the air missing above and below your car.

I know drivers with the first Honda Insight (2 seats) at 60-70MPG

Entirely true thanks to the fact that it's still the smallest of the hybrids by a huge margin - it's exactly the same size as a Miata.

 

[raggie33]

when someone tail gates do the mpg of the vehicle in front get worst mpg?

 

[idleprocess]

I have long been interested in MPG and how to drive to achieve higher MPG. Appropriate coasting is still the best method. no 'drafting' on the highway. I have 2 long-distance trucker relatives and they pungently expressed their opinion about this practice.

It's not the best practice to drive close enough to a truck to realize the savings. ~10m at 75MPH isn't a lot of margin.

Winter in the northern MidWest exacts a serious energy penalty from any EV! Less so in the Nürnberg area. Hence I gave up after seriously looking at the Gen 1 Prius vehicles, Chevrolet Volts and Bolts notwithstanding. Any Tesla was totally out of my $$ range.

Mere climate extremes will cut into BEV range. Generating a temperature differential is not cheap from a physics perspective. Heated/cooled seats can cut down on the energy expense, but clearly can't do all the work.

So with that background, this thread provoked me to take the opportunity to check out any Mall of America electric vehicle charging stations. I found two (2) EV charging stations on the 4th level of the huge West parking garage. they both offered a J1772 electrical connection at 120VAC. maybe there was also a DC connection, but I could not remove the charging plug. Payment only via a Chargepoint account - you need your Chargepoint card, or a mobile Chargepoint app, etc. cost? $1/minute or $0.39/KWH. A dollar a minute at 120VAC at about 16A into that size of battery? Aua!

From what I've heard, public charging stations can be like the air compressor at a gas station - routinely abused to the point of constant malfunction and also routinely used as just another parking spot.

Public chargers are also a conceptual challenge for the market. Should they be treated as a source of revenue or a customer amenity? How should the fee structure be arranged? How much power should be delivered to users? What's the best arrangement to keep their usage efficient - i.e. encourage routine turnover on charger spots?

$1/minute or $0.39/kWH for slow charging is pretty absurd - especially since commercial rates in Minneapolis look to be around $0.087 per kWH. Surprised that one isn't getting 240V / 40A service at that price.

I live in an apt in Wisconsin - no EV charging reasonable there. If I drive in to the Twin Cities area, I typically put on 100 miles. which is likely a deep-discharge for a pure EV battery, and thereby shorter life. Furthermore, I normally purchase an Auto for 10 years plus, or around 200K miles. no pure EV for me for the next several years, no matter what the supposed MPG is! Hybrid or pure EVs need to mature a lot and the EV purchase price needs to drop significantly before I could possibly be interested.

Short of a private garage - and the means to install a 240V appliance - or ridiculously overprovisioned public chargers, apartments make it difficult to own an EV.

Hybrid batteries seem to hold up quite well. A co-worker of mine with a ~80-mile commute bought a Prius at ~100K miles and now at 300K miles is just now looking at battery pack replacement. That was the NiMH pack, but even the newer Li-Ion versions use the same theory of operation - pack charge levels are managed within a range for long life (and peak power delivery). My co-worker thinks he can get a salvaged low-mileage pack for under $2000.

With the price reductions Li-Ion has been seeing, I suspect that neither Tesla nor GM will have the long-range EV market to themselves for very long. Prices have gone from >$1/W-H to ~$0.25/W-H in a few short years - mostly as a consequence of economies of scale. Suspect there will be additional price drops as the battery industry transitions from supplying the laptop and power tool industries at a boutique level to truly industrial levels of production. LG Chem looks to have won in their deal with GM for the Bolt - they're reportedly charging some $0.39/W-H.

But EV's aren't everything to everyone, simply can't be for the foreseeable future, and anyone that tries to argue otherwise is hard to take seriously.

 

[Bdm82]

It's not the best practice to drive close enough to a truck to realize the savings. ~10m at 75MPH isn't a lot of margin.


Mere climate extremes will cut into BEV range. Generating a temperature differential is not cheap from a physics perspective. Heated/cooled seats can cut down on the energy expense, but clearly can't do all the work.


From what I've heard, public charging stations can be like the air compressor at a gas station - routinely abused to the point of constant malfunction and also routinely used as just another parking spot.

Public chargers are also a conceptual challenge for the market. Should they be treated as a source of revenue or a customer amenity? How should the fee structure be arranged? How much power should be delivered to users? What's the best arrangement to keep their usage efficient - i.e. encourage routine turnover on charger spots?

$1/minute or $0.39/kWH for slow charging is pretty absurd - especially since commercial rates in Minneapolis look to be around $0.087 per kWH. Surprised that one isn't getting 240V / 40A service at that price.


Short of a private garage - and the means to install a 240V appliance - or ridiculously overprovisioned public chargers, apartments make it difficult to own an EV.

Hybrid batteries seem to hold up quite well. A co-worker of mine with a ~80-mile commute bought a Prius at ~100K miles and now at 300K miles is just now looking at battery pack replacement. That was the NiMH pack, but even the newer Li-Ion versions use the same theory of operation - pack charge levels are managed within a range for long life (and peak power delivery). My co-worker thinks he can get a salvaged low-mileage pack for under $2000.

With the price reductions Li-Ion has been seeing, I suspect that neither Tesla nor GM will have the long-range EV market to themselves for very long. Prices have gone from >$1/W-H to ~$0.25/W-H in a few short years - mostly as a consequence of economies of scale. Suspect there will be additional price drops as the battery industry transitions from supplying the laptop and power tool industries at a boutique level to truly industrial levels of production. LG Chem looks to have won in their deal with GM for the Bolt - they're reportedly charging some $0.39/W-H.

But EV's aren't everything to everyone, simply can't be for the foreseeable future, and anyone that tries to argue otherwise is hard to take seriously.

A friend of mine is a Prius owner, technician, and battery pack rebuilder.
Couple thousand for a good one is by no means a bad deal. But depending on how many cells/modules need replaced and etc, he can rebuild them for less, often much less. It's amazing how much markup is still in in these packs, especially new /oem replacement.
But as we all know, balanced cells are still needed, so there's labor in rebuilding.

 

[ssanasisredna]

Low-mid 30's daily use, 42-43mpg, 70mph cruise in the 2016 family VW Passatomobile.

The toy ... a whole lot less.