Dehydration thread

bykfixer

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Adventure snd Questing/ cooking/food seemed like a logical place to start a thread about dehydration. Both prevention and recovery. A post by @JimIslander in another thread prompted me to start this. He mentioned drinking warm salt water to combat dehydration. My brother used to swear by salt pills. Gatorade used to taste like kool aid mixed with ocean water. But too much salt can cause all kinds of issues, so what's a person to do?

One thing most would not consider is getting enough sleep. Getting plenty of sleep allows the body to perform better and if need be, recover better. Now in America many believe in liquid sleep, be it coffee, teas, or 5 hour energy drinks. The things in those helps rob the body of liquids and nutrients by a process called diuretic, which means the persons urinates out not only water but the stuff that the body needs like salt, magnesium, potasium, calcium etc. Things needed to help the body cool down when need be.

Before sports drinks and air conditioning the human species made it just fine. Sure, the life expectency was shorter but that was often due to disease or bad living as much as envirionment. In some cases dehydration played a role. Yet farmers tended to live longer than city dwellers. Part was due to less stress. But much was due to a proper diet of fruits, vegetables, protiens, fiber, and rest. Example was the 2 o'clock nap. We don't dare stop at 2 o'clock to rest, but how often do you get drowsy around 2:30? Mother nature built in a set up to cause us to take a nap after lunch.

My dad told me when he was raised on a farm in summer they started at 4:30am. They paused at 11:am for lunch and at 2:30pm for a nap and after that worked until the sun went down. They went to bed around 9:00 pm. In America now we begin much later (7:00 is early) often skip lunch and knock off earlier (5:00). We stay up to watch the 11 o'clock news.

My dad worked in a smelting factory for 42 years. I never once saw him drink a Gatorade. To stay hydrated he ate strawberry's, grapes, oranges, bananas, tomatoes, among other things, and drank mostly water. He drank one 6oz cup of percolated coffee each day with a fried egg, 2 pieces of bacon and buttered toast. Sometimes a bowl of cream of wheat was added. We had lots of various types of beans with meals, corn, peas, and pasta. Portions were moderate but nobody left the table still hungry.

My dad stayed hydrated largely through a proper diet. Now as I get older I understand why he did what he did. Growing up during a time where junk food is the norm it was very easy to not eat right. For years I stayed hydrated via beer. Gallons of the stuff every week. Either that or soda. Working construction I drank lots of water too. The older fellows ate fruit all day long and at times would drink some water but not a lot.

These days sports drinks are availble along with suppliments. Yet most contain stuff to make it taste good or add enhancements like 5 days worth of vitamin C or B12. A little dab of potassium and magnesium allows it to be called electrolite replacement but it's garbage that earns billions of dollars in an ever flourishing industry. It's kool aid for the new millenium.

There are proper suppliments out there, but the best form of hydration is proper diet, plenty of water and plenty of rest. And if that isn't enough stuff like pedialite is a huge help.

Whst's your thoughts?
 

kerneldrop

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I'm not sure how warm salt water helps with dehydration.

The key is to stay ahead of hydration. Once you're dehydrated it's too late…the body takes way too long to recover.

Any "energy supplement/replenishment" that is not IV is marketing.

Any oral liquid should just be good ole water
 

thermal guy

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I heard like 60-70% of us are dehydrated on a daily basis. I myself go weeks without drinking water. Just coffee and food and pop. Definitely not the best way to go.
 

Jean-Luc Descarte

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In regards to diet, I eat fresh juicy fruits (tangerine, sour strawberry, pineapple and such) around the clock, always eat a dish with a side of fresh salad at lunch when possible (lunch is the biggest meal here), and drink both icy water and bovine milk both pure and blended with fruit. I also try to avoid greasy foods, though mostly because my liver hates it to death.

I also have a nap, or at least a cooldown moment to sit still with my eyes closed, after lunch. 15-20min is perfect.

It's especially important here, where at this time of year the relative humidity sits consistently below 30% and by the end of the dry season it can drop as low as 8%. Hydration is absolutely essential.
 

Jean-Luc Descarte

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I heard like 60-70% of us are dehydrated on a daily basis. I myself go weeks without drinking water. Just coffee and food and pop. Definitely not the best way to go.
An easy fix is to keep a bottle of cold water by your side. You will sip from it without even thinking. Fill it as needed, and presto, consistent hydration.
 

knucklegary

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I'm not sure how warm salt water helps with dehydration.

The key is to stay ahead of hydration. Once you're dehydrated it's too late…the body takes way too long to recover.

Any "energy supplement/replenishment" that is not IV is marketing.

Any oral liquid should just be good ole water
When a person stops sweating is warning sign. Time to take agua break, or next break will be iv..

I used warm (Epson) salt water to soak my feet after hard surfing sessions. Surfers feet tend to get beat-up from hard fiberglass surface.

Try wearing combat boots with these feet. During draft years in 60's many guys were classified 4F due to this issue. I wasn't so lucky..
 

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fulee9999

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An easy fix is to keep a bottle of cold water by your side. You will sip from it without even thinking. Fill it as needed, and presto, consistent hydration.

I respectfully disagree, I always have a water bottle next to me ( or in my backpack ) and when I'm really into something, either deep in tought or working I can go 3-4 hours without any water even if it's right next to me, and snap out of it completely parched
 

fulee9999

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Adventure snd Questing/ cooking/food seemed like a logical place to start a thread about dehydration. Both prevention and recovery. A post by @JimIslander in another thread prompted me to start this. He mentioned drinking warm salt water to combat dehydration. My brother used to swear by salt pills. Gatorade used to taste like kool aid mixed with ocean water. But too much salt can cause all kinds of issues, so what's a person to do?

One thing most would not consider is getting enough sleep. Getting plenty of sleep allows the body to perform better and if need be, recover better. Now in America many believe in liquid sleep, be it coffee, teas, or 5 hour energy drinks. The things in those helps rob the body of liquids and nutrients by a process called diuretic, which means the persons urinates out not only water but the stuff that the body needs like salt, magnesium, potasium, calcium etc. Things needed to help the body cool down when need be.

Before sports drinks and air conditioning the human species made it just fine. Sure, the life expectency was shorter but that was often due to disease or bad living as much as envirionment. In some cases dehydration played a role. Yet farmers tended to live longer than city dwellers. Part was due to less stress. But much was due to a proper diet of fruits, vegetables, protiens, fiber, and rest. Example was the 2 o'clock nap. We don't dare stop at 2 o'clock to rest, but how often do you get drowsy around 2:30? Mother nature built in a set up to cause us to take a nap after lunch.

My dad told me when he was raised on a farm in summer they started at 4:30am. They paused at 11:am for lunch and at 2:30pm for a nap and after that worked until the sun went down. They went to bed around 9:00 pm. In America now we begin much later (7:00 is early) often skip lunch and knock off earlier (5:00). We stay up to watch the 11 o'clock news.

My dad worked in a smelting factory for 42 years. I never once saw him drink a Gatorade. To stay hydrated he ate strawberry's, grapes, oranges, bananas, tomatoes, among other things, and drank mostly water. He drank one 6oz cup of percolated coffee each day with a fried egg, 2 pieces of bacon and buttered toast. Sometimes a bowl of cream of wheat was added. We had lots of various types of beans with meals, corn, peas, and pasta. Portions were moderate but nobody left the table still hungry.

My dad stayed hydrated largely through a proper diet. Now as I get older I understand why he did what he did. Growing up during a time where junk food is the norm it was very easy to not eat right. For years I stayed hydrated via beer. Gallons of the stuff every week. Either that or soda. Working construction I drank lots of water too. The older fellows ate fruit all day long and at times would drink some water but not a lot.

These days sports drinks are availble along with suppliments. Yet most contain stuff to make it taste good or add enhancements like 5 days worth of vitamin C or B12. A little dab of potassium and magnesium allows it to be called electrolite replacement but it's garbage that earns billions of dollars in an ever flourishing industry. It's kool aid for the new millenium.

There are proper suppliments out there, but the best form of hydration is proper diet, plenty of water and plenty of rest. And if that isn't enough stuff like pedialite is a huge help.

Whst's your thoughts?

I had an older female colleague who used to eat fruits constantly... like every day it was always apples, plums, cherries, apple slices something. To be honest it was fairly annoying, but now I kinda get it. But, even tho I like the idea of hydrating through fruits and veggies, supplying good fruits and vegetables are prohibitively expensive/cumbersome around here.

As for the electrolite stuff, if somehow I need to drink excessive amounts of liquid ( think 2-3L / 0.5 gallon an hour ) I usually drink a few electrolite drinks in there as well to try and replace some of the minerals and whatnot that left my body through sweat... Not sure if it works, but I figure it's better than water.
 

Jean-Luc Descarte

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I respectfully disagree, I always have a water bottle next to me ( or in my backpack ) and when I'm really into something, either deep in tought or working I can go 3-4 hours without any water even if it's right next to me, and snap out of it completely parched
"In the backpack" doesn't work for me either, it has to be in the field of view. The brain has to register its existence even if subconsciously.

Thhat said, what you're describing is very much me, but with food. I forget to eat if I'm too concentrated. Been trying little by little to train myself out of this.
 

bykfixer

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What intrigued me about jimislanders post besides he drinks warm salt water was his comment about wearing protective gear while riding a dirt bike and hours in a sauna like warehouse.

In my line of work we wear what amounts to a plastic bag for a safety vest and a plastic hat in the form of a hard hat. Building stuff usually takes place in the direct sunlight. One year I passed kidney stones to which the doctor said it came from not urinating often enough. Next summer I vowed that not be an issue. Late in the summer I was feeling pretty lousy one day. Thought it was a heart attack maybe. The ER doc said I was dehydrated but not..... A blood test showed plenty of blood volume meant my body had plenty of water, but my electrolites were weakened by too much water.
 

Jean-Luc Descarte

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Which is why pure water doesn't cut it. Without electrolytes you can put as much H2O in you as you can afford and it still won't help or satisfy.

Jim must've meant a very diluted saltwater mix in the vein of a saline solution.
 

fulee9999

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What intrigued me about jimislanders post besides he drinks warm salt water was his comment about wearing protective gear while riding a dirt bike and hours in a sauna like warehouse.

In my line of work we wear what amounts to a plastic bag for a safety vest and a plastic hat in the form of a hard hat. Building stuff usually takes place in the direct sunlight. One year I passed kidney stones to which the doctor said it came from not urinating often enough. Next summer I vowed that not be an issue. Late in the summer I was feeling pretty lousy one day. Thought it was a heart attack maybe. The ER doc said I was dehydrated but not..... A blood test showed plenty of blood volume meant my body had plenty of water, but my electrolites were weakened by too much water.
to be perfectly frank without the exact measurement of how much salt is in that drink it's pretty hard to tell.. in my family it's a well known remedy to drink warm salty water, it makes you throw up instantly. so I imagine his salt water is almost to the homeopathic levels of salt, or not more than what's in a coke or gatorade.
 
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I'm not sure how warm salt water helps with dehydration.

The key is to stay ahead of hydration. Once you're dehydrated it's too late…the body takes way too long to recover.

Any "energy supplement/replenishment" that is not IV is marketing.

Any oral liquid should just be good ole water

Unicef has saved millions of lives with their very simple ORS (oral rehydration solution) rehydration recipe . 6 teaspoons of sugar, 1/2 teaspoon of salt, and a liter of room temperature water.

Warm water uptake is much more efficient than cold. Sugar opens up transport mechanisms in the intestine. Both combine to create a more efficient hydration drink.

Regarding rehydration vs hydration, we can lose 3-4 liters per hour in hard Enduro riding. No possible way to "stay hydrated", as water uptake in the human body is about 1 liter per hour max. So it's ride, rest and rehydrate, then ride more.

Contrary to intuition, working in the warehouse helps me sweat MORE, not less. This helps cool the body.

SALT: Salt water is easy to drink if you don't dump the shaker in there. :) You have to approach this rationally, like anything else that you want to work well. We're talking 2.5 parts per thousand of water. Saltwater barfing requires a much, much higher percentage of salt. I regularly drink a little 35 PPT ocean water when getting thrashed surfing big waves (i.e. not intentionally), and only occasionally barf a little. That's usually during a sunrise session after a night of drinking. :) A saltwater emetic is closer to a whopping 250 PPT!

Use Unicef's recipe and it's pretty palatable. After all, that is what most hydration drinks are anyway. They just add useless vitamins, perhaps caffeine, and additional electrolytes, none of which are quickly absorbed. Salt, on the other hand, is readily absorbed, and is by far the dominant electrolyte lost to sweat.
 
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Stefano

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There is certainly a market and speculation on saline drinks.

Drinking them when it's hot is a perceived benefit but most of them can be classified as a scam for me.
If you need potassium, a banana or a potato is best.
The potassium contained in the sachets is a ridiculous amount.
100 grams of banana = 358 mg of potassium (and 75 g of water)
100 grams of potato = 421 mg of potassium (and 79 g of water)

Compare these values with the potassium content of a magnesium and potassium supplement in sachets and you will realize that the potassium in supplements is present in negligible percentage.

The discussion on magnesium is different.
I truly believe in the benefits of magnesium in both dehydration and normalcy.
Also consider that in hot weather there is vasodilation and because of this the heart has to pump and strain more.
Magnesium benefits the whole body but especially the heart.
The modern diet (refined foods and intensive cultivation) is more deficient in magnesium than in the past.

When it comes to magnesium, supplement sachets are overcharged in the price.
Best to buy a jar of magnesium citrate powder and add it to a bottle of water to drink throughout the day.
Magnesium citrate is better assimilated when taken between meals, to dissolve well it may need warm water but also in cold water it is fine as long as you wait at least 5/10 minutes and mix well.

I conclude my thoughts by talking about the potato again.
Drinking the juice of it is miraculous and could be useful in case of desitration.
By squeezing a potato in a juicer or a slow juicer you get a juice rich in potassium but it is also soothing for the gastric mucosa.
If anyone is concerned about the potato's glycemic index I mean that it is almost zero if the potato is squeezed or eaten raw.
Glycemic index of potatoes rises with cooking and increases according to the type of cooking.
In the summer he eats a lot of potatoes and bananas.
 
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bykfixer

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Old school gatorade used to have a lot of salt. We are told not to use much salt. But without it other stuff like electricity in the body doesn't work. And unless you take it in through foods it has to be introduced some way.

I don't dig on bananas but dog gone if they don't help with muscle cramps.
 

knucklegary

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Iodine, Sea, or Kosher salt?
I know at times I've gulped sea water, unintentional. Drinking ocean at times could be why I've never had low electrolytes. Keeps a guy cleaned out too!
I use to carry bananas out to the line-up. Until one day a sea lion chased me for one of 'em. Then i stopped taking food out..
 
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jtr1962

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I heard like 60-70% of us are dehydrated on a daily basis. I myself go weeks without drinking water. Just coffee and food and pop. Definitely not the best way to go.
Same with me. I used to drink a lot of soda but I've cut down considerably. Instead I go for powered drink mixes, mostly a combination of Gatorade and the stuff they sell in groceries. And my two cups of coffee when I wake up. Only time I drink any significant quantity of water is before/after a bike ride in hot weather. No choice there. If I didn't I'd probably pass out from losing too much water to sweat.

Fortunately (or unfortunately for my waistline) I'm probably not in any danger of going low on electrolytes with the amount of snacks I eat. If I manage to cut that down considerably, I'll take the advice of adding electrolytes in instances when I drink plain water.
 
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Iodine, Sea, or Kosher salt?
I know at times I've gulped sea water, unintentional. Drinking ocean at times could be why I've never had low electrolytes. Keeps a guy cleaned out too!
I use to carry bananas out to the line-up. Until one day a sea lion chased me for one of of 'em. Then i stopped taking food out..

The sodium portion is chemically identical in all three. :)
 

jtr1962

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Thhat said, what you're describing is very much me, but with food. I forget to eat if I'm too concentrated. Been trying little by little to train myself out of this.
For me immersing myself in projects (which I haven't been able to do for over 5 years due to the needs of taking care of my elderly mother) is THE way for me to lose weight. I literally don't drink, sleep, or eat for 24 hours or more when I'm really into a big project. I'm like the obsessive mad scientist.
 

jtr1962

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One thing most would not consider is getting enough sleep. Getting plenty of sleep allows the body to perform better and if need be, recover better. Now in America many believe in liquid sleep, be it coffee, teas, or 5 hour energy drinks. The things in those helps rob the body of liquids and nutrients by a process called diuretic, which means the persons urinates out not only water but the stuff that the body needs like salt, magnesium, potasium, calcium etc. Things needed to help the body cool down when need be.

Before sports drinks and air conditioning the human species made it just fine. Sure, the life expectency was shorter but that was often due to disease or bad living as much as envirionment. In some cases dehydration played a role. Yet farmers tended to live longer than city dwellers. Part was due to less stress. But much was due to a proper diet of fruits, vegetables, protiens, fiber, and rest. Example was the 2 o'clock nap. We don't dare stop at 2 o'clock to rest, but how often do you get drowsy around 2:30? Mother nature built in a set up to cause us to take a nap after lunch.

My dad told me when he was raised on a farm in summer they started at 4:30am. They paused at 11:am for lunch and at 2:30pm for a nap and after that worked until the sun went down. They went to bed around 9:00 pm. In America now we begin much later (7:00 is early) often skip lunch and knock off earlier (5:00). We stay up to watch the 11 o'clock news.
Sleep is way more important than most people realize. From the time I started school, until I started working at home permanently in late 1990, I was chronically sleep deprived. That's the life of an extreme night person forced on to a day schedule. Almost impossible for me to fall asleep before 1 or 2 AM, not matter how tired I am. Do the math. If I need to be up at 6 or 7, I'm lucky to get 5-6 hours of sleep but <4 hours was pretty common for me. I'd try to catch up on sleep on weekends but living like this you're chronically exhausted. At least when I was in school I had summers off where I could keep to my own schedule.

A few months after working from home I noticed a huge boost in my energy level for two reasons. One was that I could sleep on the schedule my body told me, which was typically go to bed between 4AM and 6AM, rise no earlier than noon. AND I could take naps if I felt out of sorts any time I wanted. For me the naps were usually after dinner. I'd sleep maybe 30 minutes to an hour. Once I felt fully awake, I'd often go on an evening bike ride.

I don't think there are any statistics out yet, but I wonder if work-from-home has helped lots of people with sleep deprivation? Even if your company requires you to keep the same hours, by avoiding the commute you can wake up 1 to 2 hours later. My sister used to wake up somewhere around 5:30 AM in order to be out the door in time to get to work at 8. Now being on permanent WFH she says she often gets up after 7. Unlike me, my sister is a morning person. Everyone else in my family is an extreme night person.
 
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